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rwy12

Honeycomb alpha yoke few questions

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I've also tried to configure the yoke in SPAD.neXt software WITHOUT installing the Honeycomb's YokeInput. All the 35 buttons are visible/ configurable properly, so in 5 minutes I've programmed the rotary switch (buttons #31-#35) for five Autobrake positions in PMDG's 737/ P3Dv4.5...

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23 hours ago, SergeyPe said:

It's absolutely true that all the switches located on the switch panel are behaving differently to the ones located on the yoke itself, i. e. they are not working correctly when you try to map the P3D functions to them directly using the sim's key assignment menu. For instance, any switch on the left side of the panel behaves identically no matter it's moved up or down, and the rotary switch registers as #31 in positions "1" and "2" and as #34 in positions "4" and "5". These switches are not supposed to be directly mapped in the sim, which is what's written in Honeycomb manual (starting from page 6).

This is very simple. Each two-position switch is actually a pair of switches (buttons, in joystick-speak). So, for example, when you flip the top left red switch one way, button 13 goes DOWN while simultaneously button 14 goes UP. When you flip it back, button 13 goes UP and button 14 goes DOWN. That's the only unusual thing about these switches, so you can program them directly in P3D just like any others, using button-DOWN and button-UP events. Same for each position of the rotary switch, except as we have seen this also falls off the end of the 32-button limit for applications that interface to the yoke with DirectInput.

What Honeycomb says in its manual is that many functions (notably the lights) are only exposed as toggles in P3D and FSX, which is pretty unhelpful if you want an on/off switch, and hence they provide a more sophisticated way in with their software. (This overlaps considerably with what FSUIPC does.) What they don't say is that because (for reasons unknown) X-Plane doesn't support button-UP events, you need individual button-DOWN actions for each position of the switch. This seems like the most likely reason they chose to implement the two-position switches this way.


MarkH

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, MarkDH said:

This is very simple. Each two-position switch is actually a pair of switches (buttons, in joystick-speak). So, for example, when you flip the top left red switch one way, button 13 goes DOWN while simultaneously button 14 goes UP. When you flip it back, button 13 goes UP and button 14 goes DOWN. That's the only unusual thing about these switches, so you can program them directly in P3D just like any others, using button-DOWN and button-UP events.

Mark,

I am looking elsewhere for a new yoke because, among other things, I fail to see the advantage of this type of switch over a two position momentary contact SPDT rocker switch (like on my current Saitek throttle quadrant, for example) that provides two independent switch actions. The fact that the electrical pair of switches represented by each physical Honeycomb switch are interdependent seems like a disadvantage to me since there is less flexibility in assigning each physical switch.  I do currently run everything through FSUIPC, and admittedly have not seen the software provided by Honeycomb.   If I am missing the point, please explain.

Thanks,

Al

Edited by ark

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7 hours ago, ark said:

I am looking elsewhere for a new yoke because, among other things, I fail to see the advantage of this type of switch over a two position momentary contact SPDT rocker switch (like on my current Saitek throttle quadrant, for example) that provides two independent switch actions. The fact that the electrical pair of switches represented by each physical Honeycomb switch are interdependent seems like a disadvantage to me since there is less flexibility in assigning each physical switch.  I do currently run everything through FSUIPC, and admittedly have not seen the software provided by Honeycomb.   If I am missing the point, please explain.

I don't understand your dilemma, they are two entirely different kinds of switch. The Honeycomb toggle switches allow you to program functions with ON/OFF persistent states, such as you need in real life for light switches. The switches on the Saitek quadrants aren't suitable for this purpose. While I can see no particular advantage to Honeycomb's dual-switch design for P3D users, there is also no disadvantage. Perhaps you are confused because you are wondering how to program a single Honeycomb switch for two different functions. While this would be technically possible, it wouldn't really make much sense. 


MarkH

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Many thanks to all the guys who tried to help me-unfortunately  my problem has been side tracked.

My problem is not programming and assigning-I have done that-I have assigned buttons using fsuipc without the yokeinput software.

Positions 31 and 32 are recognized in P3D v4.5 and I can assign anything to them.

It was very easy.

My problem was that the positions 33,34,and 35 on the rotary switch are not being recognized in either windows 10 hardware property driver or in P3D .

I want the buttons 33,34,35 to work for the pmdg 777 auto brake.

I have tried Mark's suggestion and  edited the fsuipc ini-still no luck.

Last night I tried a different approach.

1. Installed the yokeinput driver.

2.copied the flaps increase (>K:FLAPS_INCR)  variable from button 2 into the button 35 variable window.

In P3d, pmdg 777, On turning the button 35  the flaps increase.

This was good news-at least I know the buttons aren't faulty and they can be programmed using the areosoft variables.

My next step is to find the aerosoft variables that will rotate the 5 positions to auto,off,disarm ,2 and 3 in the pmdg 777.

Unfortunately I have zero skills in this area.

Can I ask somebody who understands variables  to teach me how to  write these 5 variables please. 

I have the following information from PMDG 777 events ID's

EVT_ABS_AUTOBRAKE_SELECTOR                       sdk value=292  Event ID=69924

I am going to ask Honeycomb/aerosoft support ,hopefully they may be able to help.

 

Qas

 

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For the same event ID=69924 the position of the rotary switch is defined by the "Value" parameter- from "0" for "Auto" position to "4" for "3" position. This is the PMDG logic for all multi-position switches (like 3-position toggles- the values are from 0 to 2).

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Thank you for the reply.

What do I type in the yokeinput software button 33 window  for it to recognize the auto brake please.

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7 hours ago, MarkDH said:

I don't understand your dilemma, they are two entirely different kinds of switch. The Honeycomb toggle switches allow you to program functions with ON/OFF persistent states, such as you need in real life for light switches. 

That is exactly my point, the Honeycomb 'different kinds of switches' limit my options. I use LOTs of switches and have no problem programming functions that need persistent states, such as lights. Using momentary rocker switches through FSUIPC provides lots of flexibility  -- good for implementing both momentary and persistent functions like lights.  Can't say the same for the Honeycomb switches. As they say, "to each his own".

 

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2 hours ago, ark said:

Using momentary rocker switches through FSUIPC provides lots of flexibility  -- good for implementing both momentary and persistent functions like lights

Well I'd say it's a word not allowed way of implementing ON/OFF switches because you can't tell by looking whether a switch is on or off. But it sounded like you were arguing against the 'interdependence' of the Honeycomb switches, not their persistent nature.


MarkH

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, MarkDH said:

because you can't tell by looking whether a switch is on or off.

I find that's not a problem for me since if necessary I can always look at the switch position in the VC just as I would in the real aircraft. And if I were to treat the Honeycomb switch as 'two switches' then I may have to remember something like in position 1 function A is on and B is off, but in position two A is off and B is on, etc. So I suspect that in practice the majority of Honeycomb switches are each used just for one function, e.g., the light is on or off.

 

1 hour ago, MarkDH said:

But it sounded like you were arguing against the 'interdependence' of the Honeycomb switches

And yes, the interdependence of the Honeycomb switches is a limitation I don't like. To take a contrived example, if I have a single physical switch available to control both the landing lights and the yaw damper, I can conveniently do that with a SPDT momentary rocker switch, but I can't with just one of the Honeycomb switches unless I want the states of the landing lights and yaw damper to be linked -- turning one on turns the other off, etc . If you have plenty of switches available, then this type of switch interdependence is not an issue, but it seems I always need more switches especially with more complex aircraft.

It is simply a matter of personal preference.  We are fortunate to have choices available.

Al

Edited by ark

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2 hours ago, ark said:

So I suspect that in practice the majority of Honeycomb switches are each used just for one function, e.g., the light is on or off.

I can't imagine why you would think otherwise.


MarkH

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, MarkDH said:

I can't imagine why you would think otherwise.

I guess I was thinking of applications where the Honeycomb switch would work well as a 'selector'.  For example, in the up position it would select system A (e.g. an electrical buss, a hydraulic system, etc)  and in the down position it would select system B (a backup electrical buss or hydraulic system, perhaps). The point being either A or B has to be turned on, but not both at the same time.

But I get your point , you could label what I have described as a single function even though it is different than just turning one system (e.g., a landing light) simply on or off.

Bottom line, while the Honeycomb yoke may be a well made unit, it just doesn't fit my needs in other ways besides the switches issue.  I like to fly different types of aircraft, including turboprops and turbojets. Honeycomb has chosen to label all the switches on the panel which, for me, is unfortunate.  I need to be able to assign the available switches to the functions I deem most appropriate for a particular aircraft. Typically, I won't devote a 'real' switch to a function that only needs to be operated once per flight especially if it is used before takeoff (say Avionics on/off), I'm perfectly happy using the mouse in the VC for that.  And if flying a turbojet, for example, I would prefer not to have a rotary switch pre-labeled for testing the non-existent mags (and yes, I could assign a different function ).  For those who mainly fly C182s, C310s, Baron 58s or similar reciprocating aircraft, it's a nice touch of realism.  I note that many are quite happy with this yoke, which is a good thing. As I said above, it's a personal preference issue.

Thx,

Al

Edited by ark

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, ark said:

I guess I was thinking of applications where the Honeycomb switch would work well as a 'selector'.  For example, in the up position it would select system A (e.g. an electrical buss, a hydraulic system, etc)  and in the down position it would select system B (a backup electrical buss or hydraulic system, perhaps). The point being either A or B has to be turned on, but not both at the same time.

Is not this what you are looking for ?

Quite simple and logical using YokeInput using Master Alt switch but take care that button number "12" is the button displayed as "13" in YokeInput 😒

 

    {
      "ButtonNumber": 12,
      "PressEvent": [
        {
          "Variable": ">L:SYSTEM_A",
          "Value": "1",
          "Condition": "",
          "ConditionValue": "",
          "Repeat": false,
          "DE": null,
          "EN": null,
          "FR": null,
          "ES": null
        }
      ],
      "ReleaseEvent": [
        {
          "Variable": ">L:SYSTEM_A",
          "Value": "0",
          "DE": null,
          "EN": null,
          "FR": null,
          "ES": null
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "ButtonNumber": 13,
      "PressEvent": [
        {
          "Variable": ">L:SYSTEM_B",
          "Value": "1",
          "Condition": "",
          "ConditionValue": "",
          "Repeat": false,
          "DE": null,
          "EN": null,
          "FR": null,
          "ES": null
        }
      ],
      "ReleaseEvent": [
        {
          "Variable": ">L:SYSTEM_B",
          "Value": "0",
          "DE": null,
          "EN": null,
          "FR": null,
          "ES": null
        }
      ]
    }

 

Edited by gaab

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5 hours ago, gaab said:

Is not this what you are looking for ?

No, I appreciate the input but I am not looking for anything. I was simply pointing out that a Honeycomb switch could be conveniently used for something other than a simple typical On/Off application.

Al

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So Rwy gets some answer 🙂

 

Gérard

 

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