Royal Air Force One !? - UK Prime Minister's A330 MRTT

[Ray Proudfoot 8,945]

Gents, this is getting political and you all know the rules about that. 😉

To answer the question as to whether the flag is depicted correctly it depends on which side of the aircraft you view the tail. One side it looks right, the other side it doesn't. Just like when you're viewing the Union Flag when flying from a flagpole.

[jon b 2,046]

Yep. Before it gets locked I’ll just recount a quick amusing story.

Back in 2009 I  flew a government charter flight  taking the then prime minister Gordon Brown over to the G20 summit in Pittsburgh.

We had a 3 man crew and on the inbound sector it was my job while taxiing in to  park to lean out of the flight deck emergency escape hatch on top of the 747 and hold aloft a large Union Jack flag on a long flag pole.

It wasn’t until sometime after the event someone  discreetly made us aware that protocol dictates that we should have also been flying the flag of the host nation (USA) along side our own.

Apparently just flying your own flag as we had done while arriving  in a foreign nation‘s port Is considered a declaration of war!.
Presumably it’s some old naval protocol.

So that was the day I single handedly declared war on the United States !

luckily no one said anything and we had a beer that evening with the airforce one crew, they didn’t try and punch me out so I think I got away with it 

Edited June 28, 2020 by jon b

[Chock 17,769]

15 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

To answer the question as to whether the flag is depicted correctly it depends on which side of the aircraft you view the tail. One side it looks right, the other side it doesn't. Just like when you're viewing the Union Flag when flying from a flagpole.

Nope, it's not like the typical convention where the Union Flag tends to be 'upside down' on one side since it is made 'flying forwards' on each side that is the problem in this case, it is the design itself which creates the problem. Look at shots of it from both sides and you'll see what people mean, the flag looks upside down on both sides. Still looks pretty cool as though as a design though in spite of this; I only noticed it because I am a designer myself and can get a bit picky about that sort of thing.

I doubt most people would notice if they aren't aware that the red diagonals on the Union flag are not central over the white - after all, even the Iron Maiden 'Trooper' Robinsons beer label gets that one wrong, and Iron Maiden Trooper beer is about as British as you can get (and made in my home town).

Edited June 28, 2020 by Chock

[Ron Attwood 3,464]

Too 'presidential' for my taste. There is an article in the paper this morning, reminding us that the Queen (God bless 'er) , Margaret Thatcher (God bless 'er too) and various ministers used to travel in an RAF Transport Command VC10. Nicely understated and still British.

[Chock 17,769]

9 minutes ago, Ron Attwood said:

Too 'presidential' for my taste. There is an article in the paper this morning, reminding us that the Queen (God bless 'er) , Margaret Thatcher (God bless 'er too) and various ministers used to travel in an RAF Transport Command VC10. Nicely understated and still British.

True, but unfortunately, the clickbait, instant gratification, facetube generation of today, don't do understated. If something is any less subtle than a bull in a china shop or cannot be fully assimilated in a four second video clip, then they won't get it. Frankly, I'm surprised the major politicians haven't started prefacing their briefings with video clips of kittens doing cute stuff.

So I think the 'in your face' livery design of the aeroplane is like that for that reason.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Chock

[Ray Proudfoot 8,945]

@Chock, I grant you that it does look wrong on both sides of the aircraft but given this is a military aircraft and the paint job was in-house - not outsourced to Serco - I believe we can trust the MoD and Armed Forces they got it right. It's just the amount of distortion which doesn't help. This is one source that confirms it's correct.

https://ukaviation.news/think-the-flag-is-backwards-on-the-raf-uk-voyager-youre-wrong/

I think it's a great improvement over the drab grey.

@jon b, love that story!

[Chock 17,769]

10 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I believe we can trust the MoD

I wouldn't trust the MoD to get it right if I asked them to nip up the road to buy me a Twix. Have you ever worked for them?! 🤣

Edited June 28, 2020 by Chock

[IanHarrison 522]

15 minutes ago, Chock said:

I wouldn't trust the MoD to get it right if I asked them to nip up the road to buy me a Twix. Have you ever worked for them?! 🤣

HA-ha-ha-ha-ha!

[hovercrafter 10]

Ray probably has but would not be able to say.......

[Ron Attwood 3,464]

45 minutes ago, Chock said:

So I think the 'in your face' livery design of the aeroplane is like that for that reason.

Oh yeah. I forgot. 🙁

[Ray Proudfoot 8,945]

40 minutes ago, Chock said:

I wouldn't trust the MoD to get it right if I asked them to nip up the road to buy me a Twix. Have you ever worked for them?! 🤣

As someone who worked for them for 39 years I have a decent understanding of how they operate. In-house beats outsourced every time. Perhaps your experiences were with Serco. They were absolutely useless.

[Christopher Low 5,352]

• The wider white stripes at the top of the diagonals should be on the side next to the flag pole
• The narrower white stripes at the top of the diagonals should be on the side furthest away from the flagpole

Since the "flag pole" on this aircraft is deemed to be the nose of the aircraft, the design would seem to be correct.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Christopher Low

[hovercrafter 10]

24 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

Since the "flag pole" on this aircraft is deemed to be the nose of the aircraft, the design would seem to be correct.

Yes, this understood. It is just that the convention used by the RAF is different to everyday usage - I have just tried a quick search for a flag picture running right to left, haven`t found one yet. We normally scan left to right in the UK which is why this jars in some photos of the plane.

Have the RAF been super clever and painted one side for trips to countries who read right to left?

Ray, what convention did B.A. use?

[hovercrafter 10]

Just looked at a picture of the US Air Force One which has the flag on the tail with the same convention as the RAF. Still looks weird though.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,945]

4 minutes ago, hovercrafter said:

Ray, what convention did B.A. use?

They never used the Union Flag on their liveries but various designs based on it. Chatham House and Landor were the closest.