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KL Oo

Does AI really cost this much FPS?

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Hi All,

I've just done a clean installation of P3D V5 and am going through installing AIG traffic.  What I found interesting is the massive loss of FPS AI is causing that seems greater than it was in 4.5 

Sitting on 27R at Sim-wings EGLL facing down the runway and looking at the buildings from within the F-35 cockpit I get a steady 120 FPS with all scenery maxed out . If I increase AI traffic to the point there is 150 aircraft in the sim, the FPS gradually drops down to about 30.

Is this consistent with what everybody else is noticing? Seems greater than it was in 4.5 but it's been a month or so since I used that version of the sim and don't have it installed anymore.


Kael Oswald

i7 8086k @ 5.1 / ASUS ROG Maximus XI / 16GB DDR4 3600 @ 15 / H150i PRO AIO / RTX 2080 TI / 49" SONY 4K LCD TV

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No, AIG has a performance impact on my v5 system but it is modest. In v4 i often flew with traffic off, in v5 i never do.


Rob

Sim rig: i9900K @ 5GHz, 2080 Ti. Flying P3D v5, X-plane 11, Aerofly FS2 and DCS in VR. 

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"There are three simple rules for making a smooth landing. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are."

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I have noticed AIG does impact FPS quite a bit if you have too much 

I think this would be as it used PBR and also it can inject quite a lot of traffic

I use AI companion to limit to max 60 aircraft within 25nm of me

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2 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

No, AIG has a performance impact on my v5 system but it is modest. In v4 i often flew with traffic off, in v5 i never do.

Hi Rob,

 

Just for reference, I don't suppose you could try my scenario and see what your drop is like? EGLL 27R at midday, about 150 AI AC in the SIM. I go from 120 FPS with no traffic to 30 FPS with 150 AC. Only installed a few packages but of course I've got BA and UA there to make up the 150 AC.

Cheers,

 


Kael Oswald

i7 8086k @ 5.1 / ASUS ROG Maximus XI / 16GB DDR4 3600 @ 15 / H150i PRO AIO / RTX 2080 TI / 49" SONY 4K LCD TV

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, KL Oo said:

Hi Rob,

 

Just for reference, I don't suppose you could try my scenario and see what your drop is like? EGLL 27R at midday, about 150 AI AC in the SIM. I go from 120 FPS with no traffic to 30 FPS with 150 AC. Only installed a few packages but of course I've got BA and UA there to make up the 150 AC.

Cheers,

 

OK Kael, I ran a test for you. There's too many variables with sliders, so I think the relative performance and thinking about what's going on is the relevant data.

Test system: i9900K @ 4.9 (I'm being conservative today!), 2080Ti, 32 GB ram, P3D v5 HF2.

Minimal add-ons active (default airport, default scenery).

Baseline: EGLL, default F-32, No Traffic.

FPS 115
VRAM 2.8 GB
CPU 15%
GPU 74%

AIG All Airlines active, traffic at 100%

FPS 58
VRAM 2.8
CPU 12%
GPU 38%

AIG All Airlines active, traffic at 100%, BUT limited to 30 aircraft in FSUIPC.

FPS 98
VRAM 2.9
CPU 14%
GPU 65%

Comments:

- AIG does not use significant amounts of VRAM.

- At EGLL, which is one of the greatest performance hogs in the sim, most people will noticeably decreased FPS performance at 100% traffic. This may be acceptable with simpler aircraft.

- The sim is much happier with only 30 AI aircraft, with only a 14.8% decrease in performance being seen to a level of 98 frames per second.

- Full traffic greatly decreases the usage of the GPU, most likely due to the lesser number of frames being rendered. You will notice that the GPU is once again being put to good use once the traffic is limited.

Recommendation:

  • Use full traffic for low-intensity areas.
  • Limit traffic to 30 aircraft for high-intensity areas, using FSUIPC or another traffic limiter, if the goal is smooth flight in complex aircraft.  

Edit: I checked, and 100% traffic corresponds to 162 active AI aircraft. When user aircraft is located at EGLL and a traffic limiter is not being used, arriving and departing aircraft are active not just at EGLL, but also at Gatwick, Luton and Stansted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by OzWhitey
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Rob

Sim rig: i9900K @ 5GHz, 2080 Ti. Flying P3D v5, X-plane 11, Aerofly FS2 and DCS in VR. 

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"There are three simple rules for making a smooth landing. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are."

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Is there a good free traffic limiter that will work in P3D v5? I am currently using the free version of FSUIPC.


Aaron Vinci

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23 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

OK Kael, I ran a test for you. There's too many variables with sliders, so I think the relative performance and thinking about what's going on is the relevant data.

Baseline: EGLL, default F-32, No Traffic.

FPS 115
VRAM 2.8 GB
CPU 15%
GPU 74%

AIG All Airlines active, traffic at 100%

FPS 58
VRAM 2.8
CPU 12%
GPU 38%

AIG All Airlines active, traffic at 100%, BUT limited to 30 aircraft in FSUIPC.

FPS 98
VRAM 2.9
CPU 14%
GPU 65%

 

Rob,

Thanks very much for taking the time to do that - excellent point of reference for me. Those results actually align pretty well with what I'm getting (default EGLL, AIG 100% (85 Aircraft) - 60FPS) (default EGLL no Traffic - 130FPS). Adding in Sim-wings EGLL reduces that significiantly as you would expect.

I take your point about the traffic at surrounding airports in the London area and I try and negate that my removing AI from airports that I'm not either flying into or out of using one of the many AI tools that no exist.

Cheers for the quick reply and data.

 

 

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Kael Oswald

i7 8086k @ 5.1 / ASUS ROG Maximus XI / 16GB DDR4 3600 @ 15 / H150i PRO AIO / RTX 2080 TI / 49" SONY 4K LCD TV

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48 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

Edit: I checked, and 100% traffic corresponds to 162 active AI aircraft. When user aircraft is located at EGLL and a traffic limiter is not being used, arriving and departing aircraft are active not just at EGLL, but also at Gatwick, Luton and Stansted.

With every AIG airline schedule plus all the recently added corporate flights, I get over 400 AI in the London area. It varies a lot according to time of day of course, with a lot more morning and eve than midday. This is with UK2000 airports throughout, which i think have a lot more parking spaces than the defaults.

Of course I do limit this. I set FSUIPC's limiter with a target FPS of 25 and a lower limit of 100. Whrn I first start off at EGLL, say, or even over in Southend (EGMC), there are a lot (over 400) of AI, but this drops gradually to ensure I get the desired fps, usually settling around 150-170. Since this settling happens whilst I'm preparing the cockpit, programming the FMS and so on, it isn't a bother.

The performance over London is also quite dramatically influenced by the weather. Bad weather with complex clouds and rain drag it down for me as much as the AI. So then the FSUIPC limiter will tend to bring the number of AI to my lower limit of 100.

This is with Orbx True Earth GB, and Active Sky weather, but not the "enhanced atmospherics" (EA) which I don't like much.

Pete

 

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Thanks for that Pete. It seems Im seeing a drop consistent with others, I just didn't realise how significant the AI cost was. Fortunatly there are now a number of tools around (including of course your FSUIPC) to limit AI based on a number of variables.

 


Kael Oswald

i7 8086k @ 5.1 / ASUS ROG Maximus XI / 16GB DDR4 3600 @ 15 / H150i PRO AIO / RTX 2080 TI / 49" SONY 4K LCD TV

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1 hour ago, captain420 said:

Is there a good free traffic limiter that will work in P3D v5? I am currently using the free version of FSUIPC.

You could try Ai Companion. https://www.alpha-india.net/forums/index.php?topic=29651.0

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Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v4.5, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 4.6Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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This is with P3D v4.5. If I position the Cub in locked spot view to the east of SimWings Heathrow Professional so both runways are visible and the aircraft is 900ft up I get 26fps with traffic locked at 120. Time is 11:25UT.

If I set Ai to 1 (effectively off)  the fps is 40. So 120 aircraft within an 80nm bubble is costing me 14fps.

If I increase it to 200 the fps drops to 24. That suggests traffic is close to capacity at 120. They're not all on the ground of course. Using offsets in FSUIPC shows of the 200 167 were on the ground and 33 airborne.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v4.5, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 4.6Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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Interesting @Ray Proudfoot, your system is showing a lot less impact on AI that myself and Rob.

Robs loosing 60 FPS for 160 odd aircraft at EGLL.

I'm loosing 60 odd FPS for 85 aircraft at EGLL; 

And you're only loosing 14 FPS for 120 aircraft.

Buggered if I know whats going on....


Kael Oswald

i7 8086k @ 5.1 / ASUS ROG Maximus XI / 16GB DDR4 3600 @ 15 / H150i PRO AIO / RTX 2080 TI / 49" SONY 4K LCD TV

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Kael, the big difference is the sim we are using. I didn’t bother showing scenery complexity settings etc. because they’re irrelevant where the only thing I’m changing is the number of Ai loaded.

Do you still have v4.5 installed? A comparison using the same aircraft position in both sims should confirm if v5 with AIG Ai is the issue.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v4.5, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 4.6Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor.
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Posted (edited)

Hi Ray,

No - I removed 4.5 a few months ago and have been "simless" until this week when I installed 5HF2. Perhaps the difference was this great in 4.5, I just don't recall it being so. That said, 4.5 at Sim-wings EGLL never gave me 60-70 FPS (without AI) like V5 is!

 

Edited by KL Oo

Kael Oswald

i7 8086k @ 5.1 / ASUS ROG Maximus XI / 16GB DDR4 3600 @ 15 / H150i PRO AIO / RTX 2080 TI / 49" SONY 4K LCD TV

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Kael, out of interest what are you using to count the number of Ai in the sim?


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v4.5, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 4.6Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor.
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