Prepar3D v5 or MS FS 2020?

[sal9000 210]

Hello,

just my 2 cents to this:

When I have a PC, a monitor and a joystick, then I got the V5 too, but in a Homecockpit, with all the "extra-tools" its a lot of work until everything is running.

In April I buyed a new PC and it takes me nearly 6 Weeks that all is running like before and a little better. 🙂

When I switch to V5 and all ist runnig, then it goes again with MSFS 2020.

I decide to take this time for stable flying in my 4.5 without the fear of OOM (Which was the reason to change FSX with P3D 4.1)

Maybe we talk again after v 5.1 or 5.2 comes out with a stable version 🙂

See us in the sky 👨‍✈️

Edited July 5, 2020 by sal9000
correction

[Dominique_K 10,133]

Just now, LHookins said:

Bizarre.  Truly bizarre.

Hook

🤣

Allow me Larry to bring a little levity to an austere thread. Any French should burst in laughter at your post. It reminds us of a cult line in a movie of the 30s  which is often quoted even today when somebdy  would say something like 'bizarre, truly bizarre' :  

For those with little knowledge of French or the movie  : 

The clergyman suspects that the old man killed his wife. 

- Bizarre, bizarre...

-What is the problem with your knife ?

- What ?

- You look at your knife and say "bizarre, bizarre", then I thought...

- Me ? I said bizarre, bizarre ? How strange !  Why would have said "bizarre, bizarre" ?

- I assure you, dear cousin, that you said "bizarre, bizarre"

- Me, I said bizarre ? how bizarre !

 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Dominique_K

[Wobbie 938]

3 hours ago, Dominique_K said:

What will we happen when MS has stabilized FS20 and starts selling on the institutional markets ?

 

You realise that MSFS (you are still confused in using a thumb-sucked self made abbreviation that's actually for a Farming Sim) is designed by ASOBO, so any 'stabilization, as you call it, will come from them, and is licenced as a gaming/entertainment product and therefore cannot be used by the institutional market (as you call it). A new commercial product will have to be released to that particular market, NOT for entertainment.  Just like FSx is a gameing/entertainment product & ESP is the commercial, NOT for entertainment product, that P3D is based on.

I hope that explains the difference between a gaming/entertainment product & a product that can be used commercially or institutionally, as you call it.

[Wobbie 938]

1 hour ago, G-RFRY said:

I have lost count of the number of things MS has dropped in the past 30 years FS being one of them Mobil phones over a billion wasted, they change tack at the drop of a hat and if the Phil Spencer plan does not payoff that too. 

And Phil is not competing with Sony he is more worried about Amazon, They have made inroads into the film industry and they have big plans for gaming.

Like any multi billion company, they are responsible to their shareholders, not to gamers or their entertainment market.

[n4gix 4,947]

14 hours ago, LHookins said:

Well... the 32 bit .gau file didn't work very well in the 64 bit P3Dv4. 😄 I'm surprised that P3D would still use them, but I've never dug into the internals to see how they work.  Creating the .xml files to drive the gauges was easy.

Well yes, 32 bit .dll files won't even load, much less run in a 64 bit sim, although they could have worked had the code made provision for them! Upgrading a 32 bit .dll to 64 bit is relatively easy for whoever has the source code. But absent the source code that is a dead end.

The reason why 64 bit .dll/.gau files continue to be supported is simply because there is a LOT of things that simple XML doesn't provide, such as file reading/writing, advanced/complex math, direct screen drawing, et cetera.

9 hours ago, Dominique_K said:

But the common wisdom that LM does us a favor is yet to be proved. How do you know that the consumers market is so unimportant compared to institutional sales ?

I'm surprised you even ask the question. It is self-evident that P3D is a licensed, commercial product intended from the outset to be used in FAA approved training devices. In fact their licensing agreement with MS specifically stipulated that it not be marketed as a consumer product.

Some very clever wording however, has allowed L-M to license an "Academic" version with a watermark for STEM purposes. That they don't require 'proof' of one's actual academic status prior to buying a license is what allows non-commercial folks to play in the P3D sandbox. It's a form of "don't ask; don't tell"...

As far as "tweaking" on the commercial side is concerned, it's highly unlikely that commercial customers indulge in such often, if ever. You see, once any specific training device is approved by the FAA, no changes in hardware or software may be done without having to go through the entire FAA approval process once more.

[Dominique_K 10,133]

51 minutes ago, n4gix said:

I'm surprised you even ask the question. It is self-evident that P3D is a licensed, commercial product intended from the outset to be used in FAA approved training devices. In fact their licensing agreement with MS specifically stipulated that it not be marketed as a consumer product.

Heaven forbid , I was not discussing the EULA and the certainly interesting licensing contract LM signed with MS😅 but how the revenue splits between its different markets. I have personally not read the contract nor had a look on the LM accounting books. So far, I do not know of anybody who has. I still need to be convinced that whatever  you call it, the consumer market is non significant in term of money for LM. 

 

Edited July 5, 2020 by n4gix
Removed unnecessary long quote!

[n4gix 4,947]

43 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

I still need to be convinced that whatever  you call it, the consumer market is non significant in term of money for LM. 

Honestly, neither have I seen such data, nor do I have any need to. Since my current work is primarily on the commercial side of P3D the NDAs I've signed disallows me from making more than deliberately broad statements.

Sorry I can't be more specific than that my friend.

[Wobbie 938]

It's actually non of our business, anyway. LM going to show a bunch of gamers their financials & their contracts?

Seriously? You living in Laa land!

Dominique, I notice that you been simming since 1981. That reminds me of the flight sim I had on my TRS-80 in the 1980's. Good times..

 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Wobbie

[Dominique_K 10,133]

1 hour ago, n4gix said:

Honestly, neither have I seen such data, nor do I have any need to. Since my current work is primarily on the commercial side of P3D the NDAs I've signed disallows me from making more than deliberately broad statements.

Sorry I can't be more specific than that my friend.

I appreciate your contributions Bill and far from me was the idea to ask you anything that would break a NDA !  It was a general interrogation. Common wisdom says something which is unproven by facts as far as I know.  A professional life of political and financial analysis makes me cautious on unsubstantiated affirmations specially when they are used to support a debatable argument. 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Dominique_K

[LHookins 3,102]

3 hours ago, n4gix said:

The reason why 64 bit .dll/.gau files continue to be supported is simply because there is a LOT of things that simple XML doesn't provide, such as file reading/writing, advanced/complex math, direct screen drawing, et cetera.

I found a good explanation by some guy name Bill Leaming 😄 from 2005:

https://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/showthread.php?235700-quick-qn-gau-and-cab-files&p=1597655#post1597655

One thing he mentions is that "...for FSX they decided to change back to the "true extension" of .dll...".  I guess this is why I haven't seen a .gau file since FS9 aircraft, but if you know of any 64 bit .gau files (not .dll) please let me know. I thought the .gau extension had been deprecated but I could be wrong.

I may have some familiarity with .dll files and may have even created one or two in the last 40+ years since I started my professional programming career in 1976.  Not many .dll files when programming in COBOL in those days.

When I bought my first Microsoft C++ development environment, they required proof to get the academic discount.  Currently the C++ IDE is free and I'm using that instead because the old MSDN refused to install on my modern OS.

Hook

Edited July 5, 2020 by LHookins

[honanhal 1,420]

Rob, I think we have to agree to disagree. Business involves risk -- that's what profit is supposed to reward, right? But it's also clear to me that if you're looking for the largest possible market, MSFS is not exactly a long-shot bet if you're an addon creator.

Plenty of addon creators are currently developing for multiple legacy sims. It seems like a prudent investment to devote at least some development resources to a new sim that, whatever other virtues and vices it may have, is likely (albeit not guaranteed) to attract a market that's larger by an order of magnitude than the one for our current sims. That's all I'm saying.

James

[LHookins 3,102]

5 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I agree, some development resources ... just not “all in”.  Test the waters.

So let each developer make their own decision.  Without trying to influence them.

Quote

From an end user perspective, those of us very involved in our simulators and operate them with a high level of complexity, that much complexity might never make it to MSFS

PMDG has already stated that they're developing for MSFS.  It is likely that other developers are doing this as well, but they're not talking about it.

As for people claiming that P3D/XPlane/FSX/FS9 won't be around after people see MFSF, ignore them.  They're obviously wrong.  The existence of FSX and FS9 on that list is a pretty good indicator of this.

The fact that PMDG didn't opt out of developing for the new sim in the first few weeks like they did with Microsoft Flight and Flight Sim World is really all I need to know about the ability of third party developers to create new content for the new sim.  PMDG obviously has more inside information than I do.

Hook

Edited July 6, 2020 by LHookins

[LHookins 3,102]

8 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

PMDG (and many other developers) will experiment with MSFS and see what happens ... the cautious approach.  

I think we can safely assume that successful developers are reasonably intelligent and have good business sense, and they don't need advice from the rest of us.  Developers with a deficit of one or both aren't likely to take advice.

Hook

Edited July 7, 2020 by LHookins

[Dominique_K 10,133]

From the start I found Neuman and Wloch lukewarm on the idea of having the sim on a console. No doubt that they said it will come to Xbox but after the PC version, with no time framework. They never dwell on the topic. Personal impression.

Color me an elitist, I have honestly some difficulty to think that the FS can ever become a successful console game played with a gamepad. Not a question of hardware but of average user. This is a game which needs some dedication to enjoy, you have to learn. The great gratification of a greaser in a crosswind takes time to accomplish. The FS is not by nature a mass market game. To say it otherwise an average PC simmer like me can be a RPG gamer, an average RPG/FPS console gamer is rarely a simmer and that won’t change anytime soon.

No doubt that the Gamepass will mechanically increase the simmer population but not sure of the effect on the addon market. 

Edited July 7, 2020 by Dominique_K

[Wobbie 938]

Game pass has 60million+ per month game users, a great target market. We are actually not so elitist as you make us out to be. We just a very small niche market, compared to the rest of the gaming fraternity out there.