Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 - Gamers vs Simmers

[LHookins 3,102]

59 minutes ago, Will Fly For Cheese said:

Roger - means you've received the transmission.

"Roger" means "understood."  "Received" is implied.

"Say Again" if you didn't understand.  "Repeat" is only used in artillery, to repeat the last fire mission.

"Wilco" means "will comply."

"Out" implies "Over."

And keep in mind that we didn't use formal military RTP on the CB radio.  Or on forums.

Hook

 

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by LHookins

[LHookins 3,102]

11 minutes ago, WestAir said:

Over and out is proper and required radio terminology at my Railroad.

Thank you. 🙂

My experience doesn't go back as far as World War 2.  For all I know, "Roger, Wilco, Over and Out" was acceptable in those days.  "Over and Out" almost certainly was.

Hook

[LHookins 3,102]

And for what it's worth, I didn't google this information.  I learned it in Army basic training in 1972 and practiced it for the next 3+ years.

Been there, done that, got the medal.

Hook

[Will Fly For Cheese 1,710]

There's a lot of confusion in phraseology depending on where you are. Over here in the UK when I did Radio Telephony as part of my PPL - CAA/ CAP 413 is unambiguous as to its usage;

From CAP413;

"NOTE: The procedure words ROGER and WILCO are insufficient acknowledgement of the instructions HOLD, HOLD POSITION and HOLD SHORT OF (position). In each case the acknowledgement shall be by the phraseology HOLDING or HOLDING SHORT, as appropriate."

So much these days is about repeating back instructions beginning with a "Roger" to acknowledge you heard what was last transmitted to you and then repeating back the instruction;

"G-ABCD, request taxi"

"G-CD, taxi holding point C2, runway 06 via taxiway C, surface wind 060 10 knots, QNH 998 hectopascals, left hand circuit"

"Roger, taxi holding point C2, runway 06 via taxiway C, QNH 998 hectopascals, G-CD"

etc,

 

[n4gix 4,947]

3 hours ago, LHookins said:

And for what it's worth, I didn't google this information.  I learned it in Army basic training in 1972 and practiced it for the next 3+ years.

Been there, done that, got the medal.

Hook

I learned RTP while at Ft. Gordon, GA at the US Army Southeastern Signal School in 1967, where I studied my MOS of 31E20 (Field Radio Repair). I also earned a nice promotion from E2 to SPC4 just for being an Honor Graduate. 😇

[LHookins 3,102]

The military doesn't do read backs. 🙂 At least under normal circumstances.

I notice the aviation world doesn't use Over or Out.

Hook

[LHookins 3,102]

6 minutes ago, n4gix said:

I learned RTP while at Ft. Gordon, GA at the US Army Southeastern Signal School in 1967, where I studied my MOS of 31E20 (Field Radio Repair). I also earned a nice promotion from E2 to SPC4 just for being an Honor Graduate.

Wasn't it fun!? 😄 

I guess I was pretty good at RTP.  I was on the brigade net talking to some general (not our division commander, not sure why I was talking to him).  After I concluded a complicated and difficult transmission he said, "Let me know if you ever need a job."  Warm fuzzy feelings. 🙂 

RTO wasn't even my primary job.  It fell under "other duties as assigned."

I don't care if people think I'm a gamer.  My wife probably does.  I've been out in the Real World (see above).  I even worked as a programmer at a game company that made a flight sim.  It's an honest and worthwhile living. 🙂 And yeah, I've been known to play a game or two, but most games I play have some simulation aspect.

Hook

[n4gix 4,947]

6 minutes ago, LHookins said:

Wasn't it fun!? 😄 

RTO wasn't even my primary job.  It fell under "other duties as assigned."

From Signal School I was sent to Camp Hovey, Korea. Some months later we participated in an annual joint exercise with our ROK counterparts. For some strange reason I was suddenly assigned to take a shift on a field telephone switchboard. I told my SPC5 shop supervisor that I had no idea how to even operate the equipment! He spent about 15 minutes explaining the task to me and watched while I slowly got the hang of the task.

I did have a conversation later and asked him "Why me?" He replied, "Well it's not as though there's going to be a bunch of radios to repair out here in the field, and we have six folks in our shop. As the newest one you automatically drew the short straw for this assignment." "Oh joy," I replied. 😥

But yeah, it was a lot of fun! I wanted to stay in Korea but after 13 months, I had to return to CONUS.

[joemiller 269]

Oh come on, fellows.  How did you go from debating "gamers vs simmes",   to radio talk? Please stick to debating the "gamers vs simmers" special topic. LoL

So, here's the deal.  A gamer is like a "player"- looks for a one-moment excitement and done; where as a husdband looks for a long-term relationship, hard-work, and family.

In the same context, a ganmer,wants to play, have fun, and be able to say "I flew the 747 ... yehhhh!"(I landed the airplane,  wohooo).   Whereas, the simmer, will: build a computer, OC it, tweak and tweak, study about weather,  buy and learn the best add-ons, follow flight procedures etc.etc. and etc. Therefore,  a simmer is what (I would say) 95%, of us here,  are. And, because we know how expensive it is , and how dedicated we are to flying an aircraft, we Do Not believe this is playing. (gaming).

 

Done!!!

Edited July 12, 2020 by joemiller

[LHookins 3,102]

22 minutes ago, joemiller said:

Therefore,  a simmer is what (I would say) 95%, of us here,  are.

Well maybe.

It's a hobby.  For some, it's part of their job.  

Some years ago I used to land and take off from Meigs Field in the 747.  Does that make me a gamer?  I learned a lot about short field operations.  This is what a simulation allows you to do.

Hook

[Wobbie 938]

LOL, it's a game that simulates a simulator, unless you are a gamer being entertained, if not, then you are a simmer, using a product that has a legacy originating from a gaming studio. So, apparently, only gamers can be entertained, If you are not being entertained, then you are a simmer.. A hobbyist, now that's another story..

Wiki says..A hobby is a regular activity done for enjoyment, typically during one's leisure time, not professionally and not for pay. In the 16th century, the term "hobyn" had the meaning of "small horse and pony  .Hobbies tend to follow trends in society, for example stamp collecting was popular during the nineteenth and twentieth centuries as postal systems were the main means of communication, while video games are more popular nowadays following technological advances. 

So, the endless debate carries on.. What do we consider ourselves to be? A gamer, simmer or hobbyist? and, does it really matter to others, 

 

[Murmur 3,941]

12 hours ago, joemiller said:

So, here's the deal.  A gamer is like a "player"- looks for a one-moment excitement and done; where as a husdband looks for a long-term relationship, hard-work, and family.

In the same context, a ganmer,wants to play, have fun, and be able to say "I flew the 747 ... yehhhh!"(I landed the airplane,  wohooo).   Whereas, the simmer, will: build a computer, OC it, tweak and tweak, study about weather,  buy and learn the best add-ons, follow flight procedures etc.etc. and etc. Therefore,  a simmer is what (I would say) 95%, of us here,  are. And, because we know how expensive it is , and how dedicated we are to flying an aircraft, we Do Not believe this is playing. (gaming).

That's, IMO and with all due respect, BS.

Someone flying the default Aerofly Cessna in VR at 90 fps, could be considered, when looking at it from a specific point of view, more of a "simmer", when compared to a "gamer" who plays a wannabe captain in FSX with a PMDG 737 at 20 fps.

Each of them puts different importance to different aspects of real world flight. One could even argue that the one "simming" in VR in Aerofly is putting most importance on the most basic and defining aspects of flight, namely visuals, 3D immersion, realistic smoothness, when compared to the PMDG "gamer" who puts more importance on secondary aspects like button-pushing and recreation of aviation procedures.

"Simmer" is basically a label that some gamers use for themselves to feel they're doing something which is somewhat more profound or important. ☺️

[Wobbie 938]

Or does a simmer just have more fancy toys than a gamer? 

The frequency of playing with such toys does not separate the one from the other. 

[joemiller 269]

Love all the different 'explanations' we all have. They are all correct. At the end-of-day, we can agree on one thing...We love airplanes,  and aviation; most of us wanted to be a pilot (or has), and enjoy flying the virtual skies.

 

[LHookins 3,102]

19 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

place someone into a category of elitist

Only when the shoe fits.

 

19 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Or why someone would somehow feel “lesser” because they don’t have a full size cockpit

Name two.

 

19 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I’d love to have a $250,000 full motion cockpit

I'd love to have $250,000 worth of real world aircraft. 😄 

https://www.globalair.com/aircraft-for-sale/Cessna-172

There are 9 (new or used) Cessna 172 aircraft for sale listed in the current Market Place. The average asking price for a Cessna 172 is $82,544 at this time.

Hook

Edited July 12, 2020 by LHookins