Oh, He was talking about an ESP database. That's what I looked for.

That's very confusing and obviously incorrect. It was actually a complete flight simulation.

ESP was the professional & commercial-use version of FSX SP2 Not for entertainment, (The P3D of the day). Nothing to do with FS9.

After the license agreement with LM, the ESP core has been very much modified, as seen in the latter P3D versions.

It most certainly NOT a database, it was the name of a commercial flight simulation. Calling it a database is like calling MSFS and P3D a database, or calling X-Plane a database!

Wiki:

 Lockheed Martin announced in late 2009 that they had negotiated with Microsoft a licensing agreement to purchase the intellectual property (including source code) for the Microsoft ESP product. It is the commercial-use version of Flight Simulator X SP2. On May 17, 2010,^[17] Lockheed announced that the new product based upon the ESP source code would be called Prepar3D (P3D)

 

Nice if Dom's 'Facts' were correctly presented!

 

1 hour ago, Wobbie said:

Oh, He was talking about an ESP database. That's what I looked for.

That's very confusing and obviously incorrect. It was actually a complete flight simulation.

I thought it was pretty clear in the context of the discussion that he was talking about ESP's airport database within the sim, not calling the sim itself a database. It was quite clearly presented in my view!

 

1 hour ago, Wobbie said:

It most certainly NOT a database, it was the name of a commercial flight simulation. Calling it a database is like calling MSFS and P3D a database, or calling X-Plane a database!

Wiki:

 Lockheed Martin announced in late 2009 that they had negotiated with Microsoft a licensing agreement to purchase the intellectual property (including source code) for the Microsoft ESP product. It is the commercial-use version of Flight Simulator X SP2. On May 17, 2010,^[17] Lockheed announced that the new product based upon the ESP source code would be called Prepar3D (P3D)

And if you're so hung up on getting details correct, you really should get this right, especially as it has been pointed out to you before. Lockheed Martin only purchased a license to continue developing ESP, they did not purchase the rights and ownership to the code as you keep implying.

https://news.microsoft.com/2009/11/30/lockheed-martin-microsoft-agreement-to-bring-better-training-to-warfighters/

On 7/13/2020 at 10:46 AM, micstatic said:

I'm the same.  Vatsim is a very basic requirement.  I'll still be buying P3D stuff for now.  I have most of the scenery I need right now.  But it's a mature sim.  I don't like flying to default airports.  Even the MSFS default airports are mostly not good enough.  It's a long time away to have all my routes covered by MSFS with high quality payware scenery.  

I feel the same about X-Plane, I have it setup exactly how I like it, and I'm sure it will be a while before some of those features, (x-economy, Vatsim, trackIR, will be implemented in FS2020 - but - if FS is THAT much better with it's realism and as good or better than x-plane's flight model - it will be hard to resist. The cost to try it out is minimal as the basic package has all the planes I love. The other question is how deep are the planes modeled. I have a few study level planes now and would not enjoy going backwards, (to Carenado level models). So I imagine that will take 6 months to a few years to catch up unless those companies, (TorqueSim, HotStart, Milviz),  have been developing for the new FS in the background? 

32 minutes ago, goates said:

Lockheed Martin only purchased a license to continue developing ESP, they did not purchase the rights and ownership to the code as you keep implying

"...purchase the intellectual property" seems pretty clear to me!

5 minutes ago, n4gix said:

"...purchase the intellectual property" seems pretty clear to me!

Read the link I posted from Microsoft. It never mentions purchasing the intellectual property anywhere, only that LM enter into a licensing agreement to continue development. This is very different than purchasing the rights or property. Believe LM also put out an announcement at the same time with the same licensing language.

9 minutes ago, n4gix said:

"...purchase the intellectual property" seems pretty clear to me!

This is an IP licensing agreement as per the joint statement. The IP property is not transfered. 

Have either of you had any real world contact with the P3D developers?

13 minutes ago, n4gix said:

Have either of you had any real world contact with the P3D developers?

If you have, just tell us what they said.

Hook

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/lockheed-martin-licenses-microsoft-esp-platform.17835/

Posts from a Microsoft employee who went to Lockheed Martin:

Quote

Today, Lockheed Martin announced it has licensed Microsoft's ESP platform to build new simulation solutions.

Quote

We haven't all left MS yet 😆 I'm Lockheed's single point of contact for support, and anything I can't answer myself, I can reach out to other ex-ACES folks still inside MS. Lockheed's license did include source code and the right to create derivative works.

Hook

10 minutes ago, LHookins said:

If you have, just tell us what they said.

Hook

That doesn't hold a candle to some of the agreements I signed with the military.

Hook

1 hour ago, goates said:

I thought it was pretty clear in the context of the discussion that he was talking about ESP's airport database within the sim, not calling the sim itself a database. It was quite clearly presented in my view!

 

And if you're so hung up on getting details correct, you really should get this right, especially as it has been pointed out to you before. Lockheed Martin only purchased a license to continue developing ESP, they did not purchase the rights and ownership to the code as you keep implying.

https://news.microsoft.com/2009/11/30/lockheed-martin-microsoft-agreement-to-bring-better-training-to-warfighters/

Whatever,

From Wiki:

Third-party developer agreements[edit]

Lockheed Martin Prepar3D[edit]

 

In late 2007, Aces Game Studio announced Microsoft ESP (Enterprise Simulation Platform), a development platform for companies that want to create products that use the technology in Flight Simulator. Following the closure of the Aces Game Studio in January 2009, Lockheed Martin announced in late 2009 that they had negotiated with Microsoft a licensing agreement to purchase the intellectual property (including source code) for the Microsoft ESP product. It is the commercial-use version of Flight Simulator X SP2. On May 17, 2010,^[17] Lockheed announced that the new product based upon the ESP source code would be called Prepar3D (P3D). Lockheed hired members of the original Aces Game Studio team to continue development of the product.

That was my first Google find, later I found that LM had purchased a licensing agreement to use & develope ESP... OK???

 

Nope a database is a database, and a platform is a platform. Neither FSX nor ESP is a database. I thought that someone that thumb-sucks his names & descriptions needs to get his facts correct in order to have any validity. Anyhow, I'll let boys be boys...

You don’t half see some arguments  about some rubbish in here. 

14 hours ago, pmb said:

I saw someone referring to the MSFS default airports as similar to the ORBX-enhanced airports like in FTX Germany or GB (which are based on default ORBX library buildings) and I'd say this hits the nail quite well.l

The comparison to the freeware Orbx-enhanced airport packs is dead on. That's very much like what MSFS' default airports are as far as detail level. The buildings are where they should be via the ortho foot-prints, they are generic (and the buildings look good), and there's moving people and vehicles.

There are going to be situations where the presentation doesn't work as well as other places. That's the nature of doing 37,000 airports.

Edited July 20, 20205 yr by n4gix
Removed unnecessary long quote!