Still Cheaper than PMDG planes

[ckyliu 1,749]

Ah, the bankruptcy order that is the Porsche options list; go for an Evora or A110 🙂

Edited July 15, 2020 by ckyliu

[Nyxx 6,993]

1 hour ago, bonchie said:

You know what PMDG isn't like? The entire simulator that you get with MSFS. This is just silly.

Yeah, you get a great plane with PMDG products. With MSFS you are getting the entire base sim. The value proposition is valid.

Lol

[bonchie 2,305]

32 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

Lol

Lol

[AKMGuru 17]

What I don’t get is why in the world PMdG charges so much for  their aircraft ? I get it’s as close to the real deal 737 or 747 as you can get  but over $100 ? 
 

other flight sims who model aircraft in extreme detail don’t charge nearly that same insane price. For example DCS:world. Fighter jets on the same level of detail but selling for 50-60$ per aircraft.

[ahsmatt7 1,199]

23 minutes ago, AKMGuru said:

What I don’t get is why in the world PMdG charges so much for  their aircraft ? I get it’s as close to the real deal 737 or 747 as you can get  but over $100 ? 
 

other flight sims who model aircraft in extreme detail don’t charge nearly that same insane price. For example DCS:world. Fighter jets on the same level of detail but selling for 50-60$ per aircraft.

Those aircraft aren't even close to being a complete product when they are first released. I thought th f18 and f14 were around 80 bucks. 

[goates 576]

19 minutes ago, AKMGuru said:

What I don’t get is why in the world PMdG charges so much for  their aircraft ? I get it’s as close to the real deal 737 or 747 as you can get  but over $100 ?

Because they can. At the end of the day the price is set by the seller and purchaser agreeing on a price. Cars, houses, clothes, software, it all comes down to the seller and buyer agreeing on price. It's basically a luxury item, and like luxury items in other hobbies or industries, the price will be higher than many can afford. Sure, the seller needs to cover their development and support costs, but that is only one part of the equation. Perceived value on the part of the buyer plays a big role too. Enough people have said the value is there, so PMDG will keep the prices. And why shouldn't they?

[ryebred2 23]

This is a commonly reoccurring argument in every walk of life but it is really about the have's and the don't have yet. One of the games I play on Steam has 15 DLC's that sell for about $10 each. You wouldn't believe the amount of people complaining when they come out with a new DLC for $10. They like to throw around the comment that if you bought all of their DLC's it would cost you $150. No one is forcing them to buy all of the DLC's and each one that I have bought so far has given me anywhere from 40-60 hours of play time. Seems like a pretty good deal to get that many hours of entertainment for only $10. I imagine not many around here would complain too much about $10 add-ons, especially if they were FS Labs/PMDG level because I think "most" around here tend to be older and a little more "well-off".

 

I imagine most of the complainers in the other game to be young and probably high school or college age with little money. I remember starting out in the work force out of college and had my wife cut my hair for a year because I didn't want to spend the $10 to get a haircut until I had worked long enough to start paying off college and getting some savings in our account. We even risked going without medical insurance for a year to save money. So, on some level I can relate. Now I sit around and complain about the cost of a brand new Cirrus aircraft because I want to own one and hanger it at the airport down the street from my house instead of renting it from my flight club at an airport 30 minutes away and having to deal with others renting the plane when I want to fly it. I complain because we do not have enough income over and above the cost of a new Cirrus to justify me buying one, let alone convincing the wife I need one. If we had the Zuckerberg level of income then there would be no argument.

 

The point I am trying to make is any and all cost arguments are relative to the persons income making the argument. One can claim to have principals that justify them not purchasing an "entertainment" product but that is usually just a rationalization put on top of the fact that you can't justify the cost because your income is not high enough. With more income, the price point at which you apply the "principal" argument goes up. Zuckerberg probably isn't going to balk at $10 of his money going to someone he doesn't like but a self supporting college student might.

 

For those that can't justify/afford the expensive add-ons, I feel for you. My wife and I have been lucky to be where we are at in life and so I readily enjoy the expensive add-ons and will pay for some of them again in the new simulator. And it is alright to want add-ons to be cheaper so that you can afford them (I do all the time with the Cirrus airplane). However, I wish people would recognize the real issue and not blame everything else. If you admit the real issue then it might be possible to come up with ways to achieve what you want (I do have a budgeted plan to obtain a Cirrus one day that involves a partner or two and a used plane instead of a brand new one). If I just sat around and complained all day that the problem was all Cirrus' fault and then did nothing, I would never even have a chance at owning one.

 

P.S. sorry for this emoji below, It got added accidentally and I can't seem to delete it for some reason.

🙂

[MichiGanderFlyer 8]

I will be happy with the 2 biz jets and the 3 airliners. Im sure Im not alone and the only one that isnt into "Study Level" as I have no intention to be an airline pilot. Everything else, I can crack open my Ground School books for a refresher.

[jon b 2,041]

@ryebred2 

A very thoughtful and valid post, however it  was sadly ruined by the inclusion of a smiley face emoji at the end which completely undermines the serious points being made. 😂😂😂

[martin-w 3,234]

On 7/14/2020 at 2:15 PM, TravelRunner404 said:

I truly hope Asobo will allow mods of the default aircraft.  
 

 

 

There is a scenery and aircraft editor included they have said. FDE can be tweaked, not sure about the aircraft itself. 

[AKMGuru 17]

14 hours ago, ahsmatt7 said:

Those aircraft aren't even close to being a complete product when they are first released. I thought th f18 and f14 were around 80 bucks. 

The f-18 currently is as fully functional as you can get without the obviously classified systems that can’t be modeled. And it’s yes $80 still a lot less then PMdG models. 

[threexgreen 3,135]

15 minutes ago, AKMGuru said:

The f-18 currently is as fully functional as you can get without the obviously classified systems that can’t be modeled. And it’s yes $80 still a lot less then PMdG models. 

A lot of the comparing here is being done without much regard to what is actually compared. Previously in this thread the OP was comparing a full blown simulator platform developed by 200 people with an aircraft addon developed by 10 people and tried to come to a conclusion about the prices of the two and whether one was justified.

In this instance you're comparing a figher jet with a commercial aircraft, the latter of which is more complex, both the real world aircraft and the simulations we're talking about, especially keeping in mind the F-18 developer can't model all of the systems of the real aircraft because they are classified. Now add on top of that the fact that these are different developers, different platforms with different demand and entirely different aircraft types which are simulated with different simulation depth and different demand in themselves. All of this in turn means different development costs, both fiscal as well as other costs like development time and effort.

The bottom line is that supply and demand, while still the basic mechanism, is only one part of the equation and tons of other factors come into play which affect the end price of a product. That doesn't mean every price you'll ever see is always justified but there is a lot more to it. Part of the reason why these discussions exist is because people keep comparing apples and oranges to some extent and in the same way prices of different products.

[Nyxx 6,993]

yer but some people just don't get it or understand. Like the current version of the FSL A320 is now close to 10 years work for it to get to the state its in now,

"The value proposition is valid." no its not, when you open your eyes and see what goes into some of these addons. £130 for 10 years work from a small team, worth every penny. If people cannot justify the cost to how they use the sim, that I get, but you can pay £40 for AS Airbus and enjoy it for what it is. But don't begrudge PMDG or FSL a wage for the countless hours it take to make one aircraft. Pilots use the FSL as a training tool. Look how much LM charge for P3D as a training version $2500, that's how much, so £130 is not so bad is it, if you want the depth the FSL brings to your desktop. "The value proposition is valid." really!!

The DCS F-18 is a true bargain for $80 so is the F-14-F-16C-AV-8B and the Warthog all worth every penny. 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Nyxx

[Huascar 179]

Back to my original post - my argument was simple and reasonable, I hope. Essentially, I compared two sim products by noting that one offers a lot more for your money while the other one does not. Alas, I never anticipated my post would’ve generated such a spirited debate.

The underlying reality is that PMDG finally has a true competitor,  which is good for the consumers. As we migrate to the MSFS platform, I simply don’t see how one goes back to P3D to fly a PMDG plane.  PMDG’s main challenge going forward  would be replicating the super realistic textures seen in MSFS. It is likely we’ll see discounts at PMDG. 

By the way, Microsoft is in a position to charge a lot more for MSFS 2020 as the company has truly moved flight simulation to the summit of greatness. Realism is what we always demanded, no? Well, we’re about to get that realism in a few weeks. If the project crashes and burns, I am giving up on flight simulation altogether. I simply can’t live in a constant state of troubleshooting. At present, I have three major outstanding issues with some add-ons and may have to reinstall everything again. 

I don’t resent PMDG for making money, but the popular belief in the sim community has been that they’re engaged in unfair business practices. As some of you have rightly pointed out, it cost PMDG nothing to migrate its products from FSX to P3D, and yet they felt compelled to charge full price to unlock their products. They get way with it because they understand the addictive nature of the sim community. For the record, I am a true capitalist and I don’t resent wealth.  

As a way of background, I have never pretended to be a pilot but have a special appreciation for the complexity of flying. For the casual simmer like me, MSFS may be just enough as it offers majestic sceneries and extraordinary realism. 

As for the wealth comments - The notion that a person who complains about price gauging ought to be categorized as poor or a member of the underclass is ridiculous. In the interest of not coming across as a blowhard, I refuse to talk about my wealth except to say I can’t complain.

I look forward to reading your posts regarding your MSFS experience. Particularly, I would be interested in your assessment of MS 747 and how it compares to PMDG 747 in terms of flight dynamics and the realism of the plane’s texture. I can hardly wait to read your posts.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Huascar

[Nyxx 6,993]

12 minutes ago, Huascar said:

The underlying reality is that PMDG finally has a true competitor, 

Please tell me who? Please tell me you not talking about the default aircraft that come with it are.....your not are you!!!

Here from a Tester, he is talk about the default aircraft.

"The MSFS Airbus can climb to 38,000 ft on a single engine at 4000 ft/min climb rate.  Nothing happens when you freeze up (fully covered snowman) the MSFS DA, just lose engine power and slowly lose altitude.  Abuse the aircraft and nothing breaks in MSFS (no flap damage, no gear damage).  There is no multi-channel (multiple computers driving multiple displays sync’d with GenLock) in MSFS. "

Tell me this is not your idea of a true competitor?

Edited July 16, 2020 by Nyxx