Are any of the members of ASOBO from the original FSX team?

[tweekz 2,165]

3 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

You think of the enormous intellectual assets of Lockheed Martin, you see V5, you cry.

Yeah, that's true. If you think that a small 12 man dev team like LR is lightyears ahead in terms of flight dynamics compared to a big player in aviation engineering... this is even harder to understand.

[LHookins 3,102]

I had an exchange with one of their "forum experts" once.  It was eye-opening.

Thanks to Dominique_K for that wonderful expression.

Who knows but theory knows nothing.

Hook

[Dominique_K 10,133]

8 minutes ago, LHookins said:

P3Dv5 was pushed out of the nest too soon, an act likely forced on them by business circumstances <cough>MSFS<cough>.  Let's hope MSFS doesn't suffer the same fate with an earlier-than-expected release.

Hook

In part only. There is also a philosophy which is to make the most of what they have, as worn out as it is,  to leverage their initial investment in licensing the ESP by marginal improvements.  This was more or less the way of Aces and predecessors for FS2k2/FS9/FSX. Still is for P3D. 

[LHookins 3,102]

Lockheed Martin did a pretty good job with Prepar3d version 4 compared to what came before.  Version 5, not so much.  Maybe version 6 will be better. 🙂 

Hook

[Claudius_ 323]

I think the problem here is Microsoft, not the Asobo team. Microsoft dropped all the FS series and now is pushing hard through a ridicolous "beta", is clear for me that FS2020 is, and will be, an unfinished product. Also, I don't remember nothing about a support and an update policy, maybe the Asobo team will be dissolved in a short time? They spent a lot of words to show us how the new sim is a high-tech product, but nothing about the future of the new sim.

This is very sad and reminds me another sad story, the Silent Hunter series and Ubisoft: at the end a very good team was dissolved and an unfinished product was pushed out. Fortunately SH was a highly configurable software, so the users made the rest of the hard work to make it better. Also, FSX was highly configurable by the end user and other developers, but what about FS2020?

Other companies like PMDG and Aerosoft are involved in the FS2020 project, this makes me more comfortable than other MS or Asobo statements.

Making this story short: I'm in no hurry to buy this new sim.

 

[Dominique_K 10,133]

21 minutes ago, LHookins said:

Lockheed Martin did a pretty good job with Prepar3d version 4 compared to what came before.  Version 5, not so much.  Maybe version 6 will be better. 🙂 

Hook

LM is a leader in ground target recognition AI, has routine access to the huge imagery portfolios of companies like Maxxar, has been building great aircraft of all kinds forever, has a huge highly technological subcontractor sector around it.  Did you see any of this in v4 ? P3D has been my favorite sim for 7 years but I’d say ‘time to rise from your comfy chair and move your behind guys’ 😃.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Dominique_K

[cepact 517]

Microsoft cannot dissolve Asobo, they don't own it. Asobo is an independant company. They can however, defund the flight simulator project, but I think it would be unlikely. 

[iwebber 207]

1 hour ago, Dominique_K said:

If LM doesn’t understand that, their franchise is bound to wither.

LM doesn't need to understand anything but their target market.

We are *not* their target market.

Most MSFS buyers are *not* their target market.

The P3D franchise will not wither until the military/Govts stop buying it.

They will not be reacting to us/our market, their market is someone else, we're merely clinging on to that market's coat tails and enjoying the ride.

P3D will carry on just fine with or without us (and independent of MSFS's success or failure or perceived greatness or otherwise) until LM decides it's not what it wants to do (for whatever reason) and pulls it.

It may decide to work it's magic using MSFS as a new base (like it did with ESP before it) but that's a deal that's for the future.

[Dominique_K 10,133]

19 minutes ago, rampa said:

ridicolous "beta",

why ?

the Asobo team will be dissolved in a short time?

Asobo is a French independent company with highly successful games like A plague tale.

nothing about the future of the new sim.
 

They said that the development is scheduled for 10 years. What do you want more ? That they put money in an escrow account to be sure they tell the truth😄 ?

This is very sad

if you think that the release of FS20 is very sad, I wonder what cheers you up in life ?

 Also, FSX was highly configurable by the end user and other developers, but what about FS2020? Have you taken the time to watch the 8 presentation videos Adobo released ?

 

 

 

[pmb 5,137]

2 minutes ago, iwebber said:

They will not be reacting to us/our market, their market is someone else, we're merely clinging on to that market's coat tails and enjoying the ride.

This may all be right and we may only be sprats against their big fish indeed. However, I am asking myself then, why were they in such a big hurry to release Prepar3d5 uncompleted and bug-ridden? Did the big fish order this?

Kind regards, Michael

[Dominique_K 10,133]

1 minute ago, iwebber said:

LM doesn't need to understand anything but their target market.

We are *not* their target market.

Most MSFS buyers are *not* their target market.

The P3D franchise will not wither until the military/Govts stop buying it.

They will not be reacting to us/our market, their market is someone else, we're merely clinging on to that market's coat tails and enjoying the ride.

P3D will carry on just fine with or without us (and independent of MSFS's success or failure or perceived greatness or otherwise) until LM decides it's not what it wants to do (for whatever reason) and pulls it.

It may decide to work it's magic using MSFS as a new base (like it did with ESP before it) but that's a deal that's for the future.

Yes this is what common wisdom says. Did you have a look on their accounting books to be sure from where their revenues come from ? What is the institutions/consumers ratio ? Do you think that LM serves the consumer market out of their good heart ?

Until I see their books, and of course we won’t,  «the  consumer market is not their main goal » will be for me a ploy to deflect criticisms. After all, their smart marketing guys make us pay 140 EUR just to erase a watermark on the screen.

Also, do you think that MS won’t go to the institutional market if Asobo delivers a good sim and be a strong competitor to LM ? They obviously will. 

Will LM license FS20 ? Maybe. I’d rather have them using their formidable industrial  potential to do something new. I have a lot of respect for these defense contractors. They can do better than patching FSX ad vitam eternam, believe me.

 

 

[Claudius_ 323]

30 minutes ago, pmb said:

This may all be right and we may only be sprats against their big fish indeed. However, I am asking myself then, why were they in such a big hurry to release Prepar3d5 uncompleted and bug-ridden? Did the big fish order this?

Kind regards, Michael

I think that LM rushed their "beta" because the imminent FS2020 deploy? Usually the competition makes better prices and better software, but in this case the competition seems producing the worst (at our expenses). So I decided to no accept this passively, at this point flying, the real thing, could be cheaper than buying defective software and tons of addons.

Edited July 15, 2020 by rampa

[LHookins 3,102]

1 hour ago, Dominique_K said:

Did you see any of this in v4 ?

What I saw in v4 when I upgraded from v2.5 was going from 32 bit to 64 bit and the end of OOMs, autogen that went much farther out, some improvement in performance, PBR, and the Avatar (available in v3 as well).  My settings were maxed except one to reduce stutters in certain situations.  In v2.5 I had to reduce several settings to avoid OOMs.

I agree that v5 didn't give us much.  DX12, Enhanced Atmospherics (in beta form) with a number of problems including the return of OOMs from VRAM unless you reduce your settings, enhancements to water, some improvement in performance and loading time, and a cockpit flashlight.  People who are using it are loving it, some are finding it unusable.  I decided to wait.

Of course, after I was accepted into the MSFS Alpha I haven't fired up P3Dv4 even once.  I did look at some screen shots.  Some look very good indeed, others look incredibly primitive, some are downright ugly.  I even get that effect watching P3D videos:  some parts look great, other parts make me say, "I flew in that environment and enjoyed it??" 

I think it's going to be hard for people to go back to a previous sim after experiencing MSFS.  And maybe P3Dv6 will be using some new technology.  Otherwise MSFS is likely to take over most the market that we're part of.

MSFS isn't perfect, but in places it gets close.

Hook

[Wobbie 938]

A lot of interesting stuff spoken about here, 

It is strange that the thumb-sucked fake FS20 name is still bandied about. Maybe the poster is unaware of the correct name of the sim, of which there will be 3 versions, Standard, Deluxe & Premium.

Anyhow, Microsoft Flight Simulation (NOT FS20) has a gaming license, so it cannot be used 'not for enterainment', by LM.

LM's product is licensed to be used, with the correct hardware, as a professional product for training (see Frasca, amongst others), not only for the military, but also training schools. MSFS (not FS20) cannot be used for that, as it is an entertainment product, also targeted to gamers.  

I'm surprised that the new sim is not called FS8, or FSAugust.. why FS20? 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Wobbie

[ckyliu 1,749]

@Wobbie Are you still banging that nomenclature drum? 🤣 Excellent suggestion about FS8, although I'm going to call it FS11 since it's the eleventh generation  😝

I refer to it as MFS20 to reduce confusion with both farm sim and previous iterations of the flight sim franchise, I hope this doesn't cause you difficulty sleeping. Asobo and Microsoft both use the MFS acronym and Asobo sometimes call it Flight Simulator 2020... hang on why am I justifying myself to you!?

Edited July 15, 2020 by ckyliu