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captain420

Are any of the members of ASOBO from the original FSX team?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, OzWhitey said:

You say that you like P3D, but every comment I’ve seen from you towards it is extremely negative, and you haven’t upgraded to either of the last two - much improved - versions?? 

P3D is good at what it tries to do - it aims to be a progressively-improving FSX-compatible platform. V5 is my favorite sim ever (which may, of course, change on August 18th).

Asobo have gone the other route - a ground-up new sim (more or less). 

They are both reasonable approaches, different goals, so different end products. 

I rarely answer your kind of post because it usually leads nowhere but sourness. And I am not sure that our fellow simmers are overly interested. But I will presuppose your good faith.

First the "extremely critical"

I come here to shoot the breeze with buddies having a common hobby not to root for a team. I'll have critical thinking over cheerleading anytime, I am too old (and a male) to don a miniskirt and agitate pompoms . "Extremely" critical, I don't think  so. The education and professional trajectory of a 71 year old French and European anyway. Yours may differ. That makes a good forum. Being diferent.

I guess you are new on this forum, I am critical of some aspects of FS20 too 🙂.  I have also said many times that I despise the shadenfreude of people who declare XP and P3D dead and the cottage industry with them. That doesn't mean that I will not say that Lockheed, a formidable company, couldn't  do better with P3D. Its team goes down in a blind alley  if Asobo delivers which is probable. I don't like it because we need two major players and I know that they could do much, much better. 

Now my flying. I fly v3, the best sim I know for now, because I like it for my kind of bush and GA flying in the boondocks and I've never been convinced than v4 was better.  As for v5 I am not an early adopter... Been there done that. Got tired of it . I will make exception for Asobo's baby though 😄. I also find tiresome the insane twice a year updates and an unpleasant trick to add a watermark to make us shell out 140 EUR more. Do I have satisfied your flattering curiosity ?

 

Edited by Dominique_K
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Dominique

Simming since 1981 - Prepar3D v3 on a 4770 @ 4.4 GHz and a 1080 @ 2560*1440 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals -

 

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Just now, carmined said:

And too hard to resist, it shows!  They've been involved in the product too long to make the core changes that need to be done without being so intimate with it.  I am TRULY THANKFUL that LM picked up the slack and gave us all a continuation and improvement of FSX but truth of the matter is it is still just an evolving FSX!

Can't say you are wrong.


Dominique

Simming since 1981 - Prepar3D v3 on a 4770 @ 4.4 GHz and a 1080 @ 2560*1440 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals -

 

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12 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

And too hard to resist, it shows!  They've been involved in the product too long to make the core changes that need to be done without being so intimate with it.  I am TRULY THANKFUL that LM picked up the slack and gave us all a continuation and improvement of FSX but truth of the matter is it is still just an evolving FSX!

History tells us that, in the good old Aces Studio days, there obviously was FSX and there was ESP..the P3D of the day, that was sold commercially, not for entertainment, to companies, flight schools & was licenced to be used as a training device. After Aces was closed, MS was happy to licence Dovetail Games modify FSX & to sell it through Steam. MS sold the core ESP to Lockheed Martin to develop ESP for themselves & other training facilities. So, the gaming division went to Dovetail, the pro commercial non-gaming side is owned by LM. So, obviously we know that we are allowed to hang on to the coat tails of a professional product, not targeted to us. It has evolved and is barely acknowledgable as having an FSX core.

So, how do we have the right to critise something that is really not for us? I dont think so.


Robin


"Onward & Upward" ...
To the Stars, & Beyond... 

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21 hours ago, Dominique_K said:

Do you think that LM serves the consumer market out of their good heart ?

It doesn't serve the consumer market, it's a defence contractor.

21 hours ago, Dominique_K said:

Did you have a look on their accounting books to be sure from where their revenues come from ?

Of course not; but dude, they make fighter jets (along with this lot https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/products.html), do you really think a $200 software package is going to be their main money spinner?

Face it, we're nothing but barnacles on a blue whale, they are not going to care if we leave any more than the whale would if a barnacle fell off.

21 hours ago, Dominique_K said:

Also, do you think that MS won’t go to the institutional market if Asobo delivers a good sim and be a strong competitor to LM ?

MSFS isn't a competitor to P3D, P3D contains a whole load of other technologies (Rob mentions a few here https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/567953-microsoft-flight-simulator-and-prepar3d-converging-diverging-or/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-4155816) that we don't care about (because it's not designed for us) that MSFS is unlikely to have.

That doesn't mean MSFS is (going to be) bad or that P3D is good, they're just aimed at different markets. You're comparing apples to leaves, both green but very different things.

This discussion comes up a lot with people who just think P3D is FSX with lipstick on, we don't/can't see it; but it's not.

It's way more than that and if we were LM's primary market, we'd get it... but we're not... so we don't.

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Just now, iwebber said:

It doesn't serve the consumer market, it's a defence contractor.

Fact It does serve the consumer market with P3D

Of course not; but dude, they make fighter jets (along with this lot https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/products.html), do you really think a $200 software package is going to be their main money spinner?

A large corporation doesn't work that way. Revenues are identified not globally but at division level.  

Face it, we're nothing but barnacles on a blue whale, they are not going to care if we leave any more than the whale would if a barnacle fell off.

The P3D gospel which has been made popular here by people who were employee/consultant for P3D  and could still be for all  I know.  Sorry, I don't buy it.

MSFS isn't a competitor to P3D, P3D contains a whole load of other technologies (Rob mentions a few here https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/567953-microsoft-flight-simulator-and-prepar3d-converging-diverging-or/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-4155816) that we don't care about (because it's not designed for us) that MSFS is unlikely to have.

If you could prove me in anyway that you were wrong  that would be in quoting Ainscough. 

That doesn't mean MSFS is (going to be) bad or that P3D is good, they're just aimed at different markets. You're comparing apples to leaves, both green but very different things.

You are again reciting the P3D blah blah.

 

 

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Dominique

Simming since 1981 - Prepar3D v3 on a 4770 @ 4.4 GHz and a 1080 @ 2560*1440 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals -

 

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Posted (edited)

You only need to take a look at p3d marketing material to understand immediately who the target is. Have you ever wanter to train like a real world F35 pilot. Yes L&M! Show me the way plz I want to be a fighter pilot when I'm an adult!

Feel the thrill of pulling 5 G's in F22!

Yes this is definitely the way you market your serious flight sim training software. Good job LM.

Edited by Kopteeni
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It doesn't serve the consumer market, it's a defence contractor.

Fact It does serve the consumer market with P3D

-----NOT Fact. It serves the professional training market. Consumers are riding on the shirt tails, by gaming it!

What is it that is not understood about a gaming product & a pro commercial market?

I suppose if you cannot understand that FS2020 is an Aerofly product & FS20 is a farming game. 


Robin


"Onward & Upward" ...
To the Stars, & Beyond... 

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10 hours ago, Wobbie said:

Quite right, but it was Bruce Artwick in 1979. I had it for the Radio Shack TRS-80

I remember seeing it running in a Radio Shack store in the Westland Shopping Center in Lakewood/Denver in 1973, but decided it was too difficult to bring it back to Europe at the time. I started flight simulation with Sinclair zx81 and later with Sinclair Spectrum (which I still have in my attic), then moved to the Sublogic version for Mac.

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Jean-Jacques Struyf

between EBBR and EBCI

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Just now, captain420 said:

Do you happen to have the original FS1 box? I would love to see the front and back in full detail if you do. Interesting, I never knew that!

 

If I remember well a 40 yo purchase in Paris, FS1 came in a ziplock plastic bag. No box. With a manual though . On the right. The manual on the left is a sim I had before FS1 made by Mindscape (with a Boston to NYC scenery !). 

0zafcbum

 

 

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Dominique

Simming since 1981 - Prepar3D v3 on a 4770 @ 4.4 GHz and a 1080 @ 2560*1440 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals -

 

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Just now, Jayjay said:

 but decided it was too difficult to bring it back to Europe at the time. 

Funny, I went for it 😉. It was in 79 or 80, I don't remember,  I was living in India then. I came to Paris in a business trip to HQ and saw that shiny Apple 2 in the Galeries Lafayette. But I had just a small  suitcase  for  a short trip. So I bought a huge samsonite that I filled to the brim with my computer. And left some clothes in Paris I suppose.


Dominique

Simming since 1981 - Prepar3D v3 on a 4770 @ 4.4 GHz and a 1080 @ 2560*1440 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals -

 

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Great remembering the great days of simming. 

Maybe we should start a Historical Sim forum?? 


Robin


"Onward & Upward" ...
To the Stars, & Beyond... 

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1 hour ago, Dominique_K said:

A large corporation doesn't work that way. Revenues are identified not globally but at division level. 

And you think that the division writing and selling a $200 software package is generating more revenue than the division(s) that makes and sells the F35? In fact, so much more that LM is going to be concerned whether you (I'm assuming a single purchaser of software and not the head of some country's military) buy/like/support it or not?

1 hour ago, Dominique_K said:

The P3D gospel which has been made popular here by people who were employee/consultant for P3D  and could still be for all  I know.  Sorry, I don't buy it.

It's not gospel, it's grounded in truth and fact.

It's made popular by people who can see it, irrespective of whether they are employed by anyone.

Whether you buy it or not is irrelevant to how true it is.

1 hour ago, Dominique_K said:

If you could prove me in anyway that you were wrong  that would be in quoting Ainscough.

He mentioned some of the internal features of P3D that most of us haven't heard of, it doesn't become more or less true if someone else says it. Or maybe I'm wrong, maybe you are intimately aquainted with CIGI and DIS protocol version 6 and konw what it is, unlike the rest of us.

1 hour ago, Dominique_K said:

You are again reciting the P3D blah blah.

If by "P3D blah blah" you mean "the basic a fundamental purpose of P3D" then yes, you're right, I am. You are, again, trying to ignore it but unfortunately it doesn't cease to be true just because you don't believe it. I'm not a big believer of gravity but I have yet to escape it's grasp.

This is becoming a bit detached from reality now, you've made no further additions to the discussion other than you don't like Rob and I'm not sure that has any bearing on LM's approach to P3D. You can make as much of a fuss as you like about what LM have to do to win your trust and money but they're not going to care. I'm just trying to lower your blood pressure, make your life more relaxing and increase your life span by pointing out you're beating a horse that has not only died, it's been to the glue factory and come back as UHU.

P3D will run whatever course LM wants it to run (as it always has) irrespective of our little community, all we can do is enjoy the ride. Let's all just get on with enjoying that ride and looking forward to Aug 18th when we will finally get a new product aimed almost entirely at us.

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Just now, iwebber said:

  looking forward to Aug 18th  

OK, let sum it up. I think you are  wrong. You think that I am wrong.  😀 

So I will stay with your last sentence quoted above and don't go further. 🍻

 

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Dominique

Simming since 1981 - Prepar3D v3 on a 4770 @ 4.4 GHz and a 1080 @ 2560*1440 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals -

 

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Please, refrain from critisizing p3d. You simply aren't worthy. You are not our target market, how the hell did you even hear about us? Well, if we catch you having any fun in our serious flight training simulator we will come to your house and add that watermark back on your screen, ok?.

Well, you can totally enjoy the thrill of pulling 5g's in our f22 but please try to maintain your best professionality while doing so. And stop immediately if you are starting to have any sort of fun. This is a professional training tool after all.

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Just now, Kopteeni said:

Please, refrain from critisizing p3d. You simply aren't worthy. You are not our target market, how the hell did you even hear about us? Well, if we catch you having any fun in our serious flight training simulator we will come to your house and add that watermark back on your screen, ok?.

Well, you can totally enjoy the thrill of pulling 5g's in our f22 but please try to maintain your best professionality while doing so. And stop immediately if you are starting to have any sort of fun. This is a professional training tool after all.

"You simply aren't worthy". You are just barnacles and don't you ever forget that  😅

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Dominique

Simming since 1981 - Prepar3D v3 on a 4770 @ 4.4 GHz and a 1080 @ 2560*1440 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals -

 

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