Can I ask the AVSim community just 1 thing ?

[LHookins 3,102]

Haters are irrelevant and may be put on ignore without fear of losing any useful information.  Just be sure to check out an ignored post occasionally to see if anything has changed.  I have a few people I've eventually taken off ignore... but not many.

Hook

[Ron Attwood 3,464]

1 hour ago, SolRayz said:

omg...shoot me. 

You got a genuine LOL out of me. 😁

[ShawnG 1,823]

18 hours ago, G-RFRY said:

I think things have changed from 20 years ago, we are now in the switch it on play instantly no setting up era, this is why the new game consoles have been optimised for fast loading and all the big tach company`s are going in to game streaming, no download just play that`s the future the younger generation don`t want to spend time setting things up and maintaining hardware.  

Ummm.  I’m an old tech head from way back.  I am more than capable of setting up any pc or network related setup, or solving any problem you want to give me.  Additionally, I do it every day for a living.

 

I. Do. Not.  Ever. Want. To. Spend  as  Much. Time.  “Setting Up” a  Flight. Sim.  as. I  currently. Do.  With. P3D.

 

This current “install the sim, and then spend thousands of dollars, and most of your free time replacing every stinking facet of it” deal is NOT OPTIMAL.  It’s not a desirable feature.  It isn’t even mildly a positive in any sense of the word, unless you sell flight sim add-ons 
 

it has been what we have had to do to have an adequate sim experience, so I have been generally OK with doing what needs to be done, but if “the kids” don’t want to spend twice the amount of time maintaining their sim as flying in it, I would say that “these kids today” are correct about that.  Let’s be honest.

[LHookins 3,102]

4 hours ago, SolRayz said:

omg...shoot me.

"But, Your Honor!  He demanded I do it!" 😄 

Hook

[wim123 758]

lets indeed be infinitely glad its on steam form the start.

 i never will be able to understand why ppl ask questions on forums that can be answered asap with a google in 20 seconds or so.

maybe i am getting too old???

[Dominique_K 10,133]

4 hours ago, ShawnG said:

I. Do. Not.  Ever. Want. To. Spend  as  Much. Time.  “Setting Up” a  Flight. Sim.  as. I  currently. Do.  With. P3D
 tspend thousands of dollars, and most of your free time replacing every stinking facet of it” deal is NOT OPTIMAL.  

I see two issues here (Caveat : I am a long time P3D user, unfamiliar with XP).

Maintaining the sim to have it work properly. A reasonable use of P3D (sliders vs hardware) with about 70 reputable addons has almost never brought me any grief neither to install nor to sim with them. The Tweak Fair aka the P3D forum does not reflect the reality of P3D simming. It is a caricature of it. I guess the regulars don’t see anymore how surrealistic it has become . I do not incriminate P3D nor the LM team. Some mad users (mad as in a mad scientist 😁) , willing to extract the very last FPS. Oops, the last drop of smoothness, FPS are not politically correct these days. 

Enhancing the sim. P3D was with v2 a huge improvement over FSX. But since,  the P3D team was wrong to abandon some basic components like the live weather environment or to leave the terrain engine as they found it in FSX. That being said, the sim core cannot bring you everything. Fortunately. Because users have ideas to do things better.  We do 😏. To do things that few other people are interested in. I can blame the P3D team to have waited for so long to give us runway slopes. I cannot blame them not to have given us the score of wonderful PNG airfields that Orbx brought to my rig. I expect and hope  that FS20 will see an explosion of addons.  

[Der Zeitgeist 1,575]

10 hours ago, SolRayz said:

omg...shoot me. 

What? You mean you're not getting the Switch version when it comes out?

 

Edited July 31, 2020 by Der Zeitgeist

[ShawnG 1,823]

7 hours ago, Dominique_K said:

I see two issues here (Caveat : I am a long time P3D user, unfamiliar with XP).

Maintaining the sim to have it work properly. A reasonable use of P3D (sliders vs hardware) with about 70 reputable addons has almost never brought me any grief neither to install nor to sim with them. The Tweak Fair aka the P3D forum does not reflect the reality of P3D simming. It is a caricature of it. I guess the regulars don’t see anymore how surrealistic it has become . I do not incriminate P3D nor the LM team. Some mad users (mad as in a mad scientist 😁) , willing to extract the very last FPS. Oops, the last drop of smoothness, FPS are not politically correct these days. 

Enhancing the sim. P3D was with v2 a huge improvement over FSX. But since,  the P3D team was wrong to abandon some basic components like the live weather environment or to leave the terrain engine as they found it in FSX. That being said, the sim core cannot bring you everything. Fortunately. Because users have ideas to do things better.  We do 😏. To do things that few other people are interested in. I can blame the P3D team to have waited for so long to give us runway slopes. I cannot blame them not to have given us the score of wonderful PNG airfields that Orbx brought to my rig. I expect and hope  that FS20 will see an explosion of addons.  

It’s not about blame, it’s about recognizing the reality.  I love that people have over the years developed many wonderful add-ons.  I don’t love that a good number of those add ons conflict with others, involve various hacks or background programs to run. require other products to work properly, all have different installer routines, copyright protection schemes, or proprietary shops.  I don’t love that every two years the base sim gets an update that breaks most of the products released for the previous version, leaving developers having to patch everything they made, time they could spend making something new.  Among other things.

Im looking forward to addons for fs20.  I’m also looking forward to not needing to have as many,  I’m hoping a single point of install for all your addons exists.  What we have now is a mess.  I can deal with that mess if I have to, but I’m not going to pretend that I love it.

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

8 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

there are users that will install 3 of the same airport but from different vendors and then wonder why they have conflicts.

There might be a few users that purposely do that, but for the most part, the reason that a user ends up with 3rd party multiple airports installed is that certain regional scenery add-ons and AI traffic packages "silently" add often hundreds of airports.  It's the gift from your crazy uncle that you never wanted.

[eslader 1,777]

16 hours ago, ShawnG said:

I. Do. Not.  Ever. Want. To. Spend  as  Much. Time.  “Setting Up” a  Flight. Sim.  as. I  currently. Do.  With. P3D.

100% agree. My Windows install decided to completely kill the MBR partition 2 weeks ago. I still haven't gotten p3d set up again. Why? Because I just can't bring myself to go through all the hassle yet. I'm sure I will eventually, but even when it's fully installed, if I go too long between uses I end up spending half an hour or more screwing around with getting it where it needs to be rather than getting a virtual plane in the air. Gotta update Navigraph, then update all the FMS's, gotta re-log in to a bunch of addons, oh, and a plane wants to be updated and hey! FSDT's run another update and I'm supposed to quit the sim and go into their updater and mess around there for awhile. And then about 20% of the time, I spend 45 minutes planning a flight and programming the FMS, and then it hangs while I'm taxiing to the runway. 

Forget that. I'm beyond ready to leap into the future. Nothing against the 3pd's that have done a great job getting results out of a platform that it was never designed to handle. That's been great -- but now we have a chance to leave at least some of that behind, and I'm fully behind the idea.

 

I also thought it was funny that the guy you replied to was talking about how consoles load up immediately. Tell that to my ps3. Every time I turn it on, it wants to update itself. Then whatever game I'm playing wants to update. 2 hours later and my block of gaming time is over and I have to go get things accomplished, and all I did was watch a progress bar. 

Consoles used to be fast-load, back in the Atari/NES days. Now? Not so much.

 

 

Edited July 31, 2020 by eslader

[ShawnG 1,823]

24 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I think the question you should be asking is why are people creating their own mess of complexity ... why are people installing FSX products into P3D by using registry hacks?  Why are people using FS9 AI models in P3D that will cause problems?  Why are people tweaking their config files when they don't need to to make it work well?  Why are people installing 5 different "shader" tools and then wonder why they get DXGI errors?  

As with P3D, XP, and now MSFS, the burden of "careful" add-on/DLC choices is still going to be on the "end user".  In many ways the very limited MSFS SDK is probably going to encourage DLC/Add-On partners to go "outside" the confines to accomplish a task the end users desires.

 

Cheers, Rob.

You can ask that question if you want.  I don't ask questions that I know the answer to.  The reason why people do all of those things is because the current sim environment consists of users having to frankenstein their own sim environment over the top of a sim engine that is flat out not capable of providing a modern sim experience without everything being replaced.  and if there is no replacement, they try their own solutions.  I can appreciate your perspective as a man that provides tech assistance for those folks, but If the base expectation of the sim is DIY chaos land, it's hard for me to fault folks for trying anything.  

as far as devs going off the reservation in the new sim, I know we will probably get there some day.  Hopefully not soon, and hopefully not often, and hopefully they exhaust every capability of the SDK first.  I was a wholehearted supporter of maverick sim addon design at one point, and I still do appreciate the work of devs like ORBX, majestic, PMDG etc...   But I do not want the default assumption to return to expensive, never ending and time consuming sim maintenance.

[SolRayz 392]

9 hours ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

What? You mean you're not getting the Switch version when it comes out?

 

lol...can i preorderz!!!

[stevphfeniey 56]

>person starts a thread asking the forum to be nice to new players
>immediately descends into 7 straight pages of elitism and generally being dicks to new players

Nice look, boys. Real classy.

[Der Zeitgeist 1,575]

28 minutes ago, stevphfeniey said:

>person starts a thread asking the forum to be nice to new players
>immediately descends into 7 straight pages of elitism and generally being dicks to new players

Nice look, boys. Real classy.

Don't worry, most people probably aren't bothered too much by professional desk chair pilots who think they are very good at pretend airplanes on their home computers. 🙂