Upgrade Yoke and Pedals?

[TacomaSailor 191]

I've been MS Flight Sim flying since the earliest days at Meigs Field.  I have a CH Flight Sim Yoke and Pro Pedals I purchased many years ago, at least a decade but probably more.  Everything still works and is reasonably smooth and linear.  I clean the parts and never have any problems with the yoke, throttle, prop, mixture, or pedals.

I am upgrading all my PC hardware in anticipation of August 18 and Flight Sim 2020.

I've read a lot about the newer yokes and pedals but wonder how much improvement I will experience by spending $750 or more to upgrade the controls?

I fly almost 100% GA, low and slow.  I like to hand fly and spend most of my time in mountains or other challenging terrain from the San Diego mountains north to Alaska.  I love to fly float planes in British Columbia but seldom venture more than 5,000 feet AGL.  Complex systems managed airplanes are not of interest to me, the most complex plane I fly is a Mooney with modern GPS. 

How much "improved yoke and pedal feel" will I gain by spending a bit of money.  Fortunately, a bit of money spent on flight sim is no big deal in our household.

I have the same general question about upgrading my Saitek ST290 joystick.  I don't really like the feel it gives me and just need a smoother stick to use with my A2A J3. 

Thanks for any input. 

Edited August 1, 2020 by TacomaSailor
add joy stick question

[FreeBird(Josh) 314]

I upgraded all my controls to the Virtual Fly Stuff. its expensive but you cant get any better.I really recommend this stuff. There is also Force Feedback stuff which is also pricey. Nothing feels better than metal, plastic just doesn't do it for me.   https://www.virtual-fly.com/en/shop

[ncngrr 8]

TacomaSailor,

I could have have written your post a couple months ago as the flying you do almost exactly describes my interests.  I very recently replaced my Saitek yoke with the VirtualFly Yoko + yoke.  So far, I’m loving it.  Aside from the feel of the yoke, including the smoothness and fluidity of the mechanism’s movement, which is a huge improvement over the Saitek yoke, the control of the ailerons and elevators is much finer than that of the Saitek.  I even found that I no longer need/want to use the FSUIPC slope adjustment/ calibration with the Yoko + because the control input into the sim (P3Dv4.5) seems much more natural without any additional configuration modification (FSUIPC slope adjustment).  I have no regrets replacing the Saitek yoke with the Virtual Fly Yoko +.

[fppilot 4,371]

21 hours ago, TacomaSailor said:

I've read a lot about the newer yokes and pedals but wonder how much improvement I will experience by spending $750 or more to upgrade the controls?

 

What type of controls are you planning for?  Yoke and rudder pedals I see.  Any panels?  Considering use of a tablet?  Is $750 your budget?  Lot of questions, but please frame your request, otherwise you will continue to get recommendations that may or may not be out of your budget range.
 

 

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

The Yoko is a fine yoke but the price is hard to justify. I’m waiting for the Fulcrum One yoke which isn’t far away and is roughly half the price. Yes, you read that correctly. Half the price of the Yoko costing around 350 GBP. You will need to add your import tax to that price.

https://www.fulcrumsim.com/product/fulcrum-one-yoke/

The owner has his own sub forum here on AvSim. https://www.avsim.com/forums/forum/882-fulcrum-simulator-controls/

[mickatmian 52]

For a 1/3rd the price of the Yoko and a significant amount less than the Fulcrum is the Honeycomb yoke £230 (yes Ray I know it does not have the pots you are so set on) but it does have switches for GA  aircraft and is smooth on both axis if a little stiff on pitch.

Having previously owned both CH and Saitek yokes the Honeycomb is in a different ball park.

After using this yoke for a month if I had to buy again then it would still be the Honeycomb. 

Hope this helps.

Mick

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

Mick, all potentiometers, whatever their quality, will eventually wear out. I’ve thrown two Saitek throttle quadrants away because of useless pots. It’s not just me so anti-pot. Plenty others are too.

At Cosford in 2019 a real-world 747 pilot said the Fulcrum was as good as the Yoko and half the price. He isn’t considering the Honeycomb. I’ve tried the Honeycomb and it’s not a patch on either but for $200 it’s decent value. Just a slightly better Saitek.

I’m guessing you haven’t tried the Fulcrum. If you had I’m sure you’d have a different opinion.

[mickatmian 52]

15 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

At Cosford in 2019 a real-world 747 pilot said the Fulcrum was as good as the Yoko and half the price. He isn’t considering the Honeycomb. I’ve tried the Honeycomb and it’s not a patch on either but for $200 it’s decent value. Just a slightly better Saitek.

Never having had the controls IRL I wouldn't know how they compare and obviously would take the opinion of a real world pilot. But saying the Honeycomb is just a slightly better Saitek is so misleading. Having used the Saitek for the last three years (and been a flight simmer for over 30 years) it works but in pitch mine was just a sticky/jerky mess and ended its short life in the bin, in comparison the Honeycomb is smooth as silk and much better than a slight upgrade.

Not everyone can afford or needs the best and for most it is a compromise between usability and value for money so each to their own.

With regard to pots I have never had a problem either with CH throttles, Used for maybe 10 years or my current twin Saitek throttles, except for a Saitek throttle which had faulty pots out of the box.

Mick

 

 

 

[SergeyPe 92]

2 hours ago, mickatmian said:

But saying the Honeycomb is just a slightly better Saitek is so misleading.

Well, mechanically they are very different, Honeycomb having all-metal roller-type bearings on both axis as opposed to mostly plastic on Saitek. I would position it right in the middle between Saitek and Fulcrum as a model of a well-designed mass-production yoke. And the potentiometers used are clearly of a better quality than Saitek; but of course they will eventually wear out. We all know that Honeycomb was fighting with the production costs from the very start when they announced 159 USD as an RRP both for the yoke and the throttle; first they had to abandon the Halls and an all-metal internal design, then the professional-grade pots for the cheaper ones. Still now it's 210 Euro from Aerosoft...

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

4 hours ago, mickatmian said:

Never having had the controls IRL I wouldn't know how they compare and obviously would take the opinion of a real world pilot. But saying the Honeycomb is just a slightly better Saitek is so misleading. Having used the Saitek for the last three years (and been a flight simmer for over 30 years) it works but in pitch mine was just a sticky/jerky mess and ended its short life in the bin, in comparison the Honeycomb is smooth as silk and much better than a slight upgrade.

Not everyone can afford or needs the best and for most it is a compromise between usability and value for money so each to their own.

With regard to pots I have never had a problem either with CH throttles, Used for maybe 10 years or my current twin Saitek throttles, except for a Saitek throttle which had faulty pots out of the box.

Mick

I tried the Honeycomb at Cosford last year and the elevator axis was incredibly stiff. I don’t think they ever solved that because a year earlier at Cosford it took another person to hold the body of the yoke whilst I pulled back. Yes, I’d agree it’s better than the Saitek but way short of the Fulcrum.

My Saitek yoke is still operational after 13 years but 95% is spent on a/p. When people are prepared to spend 1000 GBP on a graphics card surely spending half that on a decent yoke makes sense. Throttles too but sadly no quality four axis ones are available.

[GCBraun 2,392]

Bought and sold the Honeycomb after a couple months. Felt like a toy when compared to my TM Warthog.

The problem I have is that I use my rig for simming, gaming and working, therefore I cannot have a huge Yoke mounted on the table.

I found a replica 737 yoke for about 200 Euros (https://www.mfsim.com.br/yoke737) that just stands on the floor. Considering buying that as it would fit perfectly between my chair and my desk and it should be much easier to move it around.

Edited August 5, 2020 by GCBraun

[TacomaSailor 191]

The question about budget is the essential issue for me!

I know I can upgrade for around $600 (pedals + yoke) and it will probably be a nice improvement over my decade old CH Products system.  That was the path I had intended to take, but then I started reading about the hardware at the next higher level and wanted some real world feedback from users of the expensive stuff.  As usual, it seems the opinions are quite diverse.

 

So, I guess the real question is what this thread is debating:  Is the improvement in feel/response/smoothness/longevity that much greater when spending $1500 or so for some of the high end combinations of yoke/pedal?

[SergeyPe 92]

45 minutes ago, TacomaSailor said:

Is the improvement in feel/response/smoothness/longevity that much greater when spending $1500 or so for some of the high end combinations of yoke/pedal?

And unfortunately this is the question that only you yourself can answer: is the extra $900 worth it? The only way is touch-and try which might be difficult with all current corona limitations. It's all about your personal perceptions of a new gear against a nagging thought about the extra money paid... As for the actual stuff: I have a Honeycomb; it's OK, but I'll definitely play with bungee cords to increase the tension in roll and decrease in pitch plus the pots will be replaced for the better sensors (yes, I'm a DIY guy). Never tried Yoko, but people say that pitch is even heavier than with Honeycomb, which is correct if they want to model an airliner. So Fulcrum looks like the very best desktop-mounted choice by far (also considering that it's using the springs rather than bungee cords). Pedals are a different story- IMHO Ruddo Plus from Virtual Fly is the best product money can buy as they are the only ones using load cells for braking axes, so that they respond to the braking force you apply rather than the pedal travel distance. Plus they are build like a tank. Minus- again the price (should be about $1000 in the US). This is the ultimate combo around $1500 that will be a huge improvement over CH but still this fact doesn't answer your original question i'm afraid...

[mickatmian 52]

1 hour ago, GCBraun said:

Bought and sold the Honeycomb after a couple months. Felt like a toy when compared to my TM Warthog

You will be telling us next that x-plane, p3d etc. are games!

 

40 minutes ago, TacomaSailor said:

So, I guess the real question is what this thread is debating:  Is the improvement in feel/response/smoothness/longevity that much greater when spending $1500 or so for some of the high end combinations of yoke/pedal?

Not having had one of the more expensive yokes I don't know but I guess diminishing returns comes into play.

 

2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

When people are prepared to spend 1000 GBP on a graphics card surely spending half that on a decent yoke makes sense

Sorry but on my British pension I cannot afford to spend £1000+ on a graphics card! also being in my 76 year the pots on my equipment will most probably outlast me.

Mick

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

@TacomaSailor, I’ll try to be as objective as I can. If your CH pedals are okay then hang onto them. I was impressed with the Thrustmaster TPR pedals when I tried them but as there’s nothing wrong with my CH ones I’ll keep them until they pack up. CH does appear to use decent pots.

The Saitek has 3” of travel. That’s 1.5” in each direction. The Fulcrum has 8” with 4” in each direction. Together with a Hall Sensor that gives you a far greater level of precision.

You could buy a PFC yoke but those are around 2000 USD. https://flypfc.com/product-category/yokes/

So the Fulcrum represents the middle ground and because of the exchange rate is something of a bargain for US and Euro customers.