Add-on payware and FSX

[Guest Logan826]

This goes out to all those who bashed and flamed me on this forum for saying I did not like the fact the PMDG 737 would cost the end user to upgrade to FSX after recently paying for the 737. This is from the Flight 1 ATR 72 team. Thanks Hans, you guys are the best. This is why I'm not disappointed in the fact the I purchased your product. This is a qoute from Hans at the ATR forum. So don't tell me that PMDG couldn't do the same thing for it's exsisting customers and don't bash or flame me again until you get your facts straight."Most of the work needed to convert the ATR for FS X has been completed (only the new configuration utility needs to be finished) and a free upgrade (for the download version) will be available."Thanks again Hans, Dan K

[mgh 89]

If a payware product was sold as being for FS9 why should you expect a free upgrade? There was no mis-selling - you got what you paid for.Do you also expect Microsoft to provide you with a free upgrade from FS9 to FSX?

[Guest Logan826]

No, I don't expect everything for free, if that's what your getting at. However, when you pay top dollar for a product in a community that started out as a freeware "Just because we love the hobby" yes I would expect it at either some major discount for exsisitng users or yes, a free upgrade. My other point is, if some products are offering a free upgrade to exsisting customers why can't they all ? Or at least say "if you purschased it on or after such and such a date there will be a free upgrade". Then next I'll hear is "XXXX product is so far advanced and blah blah" The ATR 72 is just as if not more then 90% on the market now.That's all I was saying then, and am saying now. There are quite a few more giving free upgrades aswell, it's not just this one.Dan

[Guest AOA]

Hi DanSounds good on the ATR.It seems to me that you will get bashed whenever you bring up a subject that results in you not having to spend money on these forums.In my opinion if F1/Hans can offer a free FSX upgrade then others could as well.Thanks F1/Hans for what I consider top notch support.Pete

[Thomas_Kenobi 0]

Indeed, the F1ATR free update is very appreciated. F1/Hans truly have excelent support.Now if we could only get that SID/STAR editor :( (just kidding)

[Guest allcott]

There are sound technical reasons why some addons need more work than others to be useable with FSX. There are sound commercial reasons why you might have to pay for the upgrade.Without the former you have not got the quality product you had in FS9. Without the latter you have no payware or commercial developers making products of this distinctioon or quality.Get real, will you? :) You have no automatic right or entitlement to any patch or upgrade unless it was expressly promised in the EULA that you accepted when you had the option to install the aircraft or scenery, or whatever. Instead of being naively narked when an upgrade costs you money, why not just be grateful when it doesn't?Allcott

[boshar 6]

I think asking money for upgrades to FS-X is a decision left to the makers of an add-on. Only they can realy see what amount of work is needed, only they know how many hours the conversion costs them.Just a theory. Maybe the ATR is build in a more standards compliant way so conversion was relativly easy to do. Maybe PMDG needs more manhours for their stuff.I would get mad if a conversion is easy but the upgrade fee would not refect that. Its called stealing and is bad karma for the ones that earn their money that way.

[Guest]

Giving free upgrades is also good public relations/customer service and will result in more sales for future products.

[Guest]

It will also result in hungry mouths for the developers' kids :)I agree that you shouldn't expect free upgrades for fs9 to fsx addons. Like the other guy said, you should be grateful to get a free upgrade or discount, but realistically shouldn't expect it.

[jfri 42]

>finished) and a free upgrade (for the download version) will>be available."What if we have the boxed version?

[Guest jero]

Would all those who disagree with free upgradesmind paying if windows update suddenly charged $2 per update??Why should that be free, I mean you bought it on Tuesday why should you get next weeks updates free or even next 2 years free?I certainly don't blame Devs for charging for upgrades, but I think where the point about you bought if for FS9 falls over is this.The PMDG 747 for example came out relatively near the end of FS9's life cycle. Whilst it currently does not work, and one hopes the upgrade to FSX is quick, we have no idea how hard or long it will take. What we do hope is that the price for the upgrade is a fair one based on how much work it really took. Now that could be 2 or 3 lines of code to as much as a total re-write. Nobody expects all the FSX features, but we expect it to work, and her-in lies the problem.I think as an add on developer you cant realistically expect someone to buy an add on for FS9 knowing that in less than 7 months time FSX will be here and say to them well you bought it for FS9. All this does is create a vacuum in FSX and the process repeats plus you cant expect people to use 2 versions of the Sim knowing that the newer version is probably better in most cases. I am in no way saying that Devs do this, but there has to be a little give and take on both sides and in most cases there is.The way I see it is like this. Developers of add-ons especially stuff like PMDG Level D for example which are probably the best add-ons going have to understand that we have waited for these ad-dons, we love them and don't want to be without them, however it is also our responsibility to be reasonable and expect waiting times for patches and fixes. What I as a consumer would expect is that if it is clear a patch can be made to make something work and can be done quite easily then it should be free, also if the product was released near the end of one sims life cycle then either the dev should swallow the cost of the patch for the new version, or with-hold the addon until its fully compatible with the new version of the sim. This may lead to a drop off in sales or add-ons available but at least a new sim has ad dons- ready to go. I dont agree with buying and add-on then having to pay half the price again in 2-3 months time.Just my humble opinionJason

[RFields5421 1]

I'm not flaming you - but this is apples and oranges.The ATR will be the FS2004 aircraft with updateds and tweaks to work in FSX.The PMDG B737 has to be redesigned and rebuilt from scratch. It will be a different aircraft than the current one. The outsides may look the same, and much of the cockpit and gauges may look and function the same - but under the hood, it will be a brand new aircraft - with all the development costs of a brand new aircraft.

[W2DR 1,859]

Your facts are wrong Dan. There is no PMDG 737 "upgrade" for FSX, free or otherwise. The current PMDG 737 is an obsolete aircraft that's being completely redone. It's a whole new aircraft, not an "upgrade". And, that's why it isn't being offered "free" to anyone who happens to now own the old one. On a more general note, ACES has just given us a new version of MSFS that will cost everyone dearly if it's to run in it's "optimized" state. $200-400 for Vista and somthing like $600-800 for an early DX10 video card. Not to mention costs for increases in RAM and power supply requrements to support Vista/DX10. So, why complain about and additional $40 for an add-on aircraft? If you want to complain to someone, complain to MS, not PMDG. Maybe MS should have just given us a free upgrade to FS9.Doug

[rcbarend 37]

What a weird discussion again: attacking one company because it charges money for an upgrade (if you can even call an "upgrade") only because an other company decides to do it for free.Have you ever considered that there may be a huge difference in effort to make both aircraft compatible with FSX ???And as far as your gratitude for a free upgrade is concerned (not directed to you specifically, but a general remark):As a freeware designer, I'm very much tempted to start asking money for all my addon gauges; if only, because it seems that a free upgrade on a payware product generally is much more appreciated, and gets much more attention, than a free upgrade of something that is free in the first place.But that's another discussion :-)Rob Barendregt

[psolk 3,037]

Dan,I gotta go with Allcott on this one get real will you? :)Then take a breath and get your facts straight, you expect PMDG to give a free FSX upgrade for the 737 like F1 did with the ATR. Now lets examine the facts.ATR designed largely within SDK limits hence, "easier" to convertATR is ~ a year old if that...PMDG 737 is what, 3 years old now and designed prior to even the thought of FSX?PMDG is desinged outside of the box and the customization done for the PMDG, LVL-D and PSS planes are not "easily" converted. Everyone knows how far outside of the box developers go with their planes to get the simulation that we do.ATR "tweaked" the FS9 version to work in FSX.PMDG is building a new plane from the ground up for FSX. There will be no tweaking of the FS9 version.Why exaclty should you get it for free based on the facts outlined above? Do you have insight into the amonut of coding required by each developer? OR are you just making a blanket statement with no foundation that becasue A did it B should do it too!Personally I never saw the first thread but if you got flamed and then came back and re-posted hoping you were going to validate yourself you deserve to get even MORE flamed now... Your whole argument is that because one group did it everyone else should too. Like I said at the outset, I am with Allcott, Get real please.If you want to say thanks for a developer choosing to offer a free upgrade then bonus, I am all for it but to whine because another isn't. Come on man, get real...-PaulPrimary RigLiquid CooledAMD FX-57 @ 3 gigsAsus A8NSLI-Premium2 gigs Corsair XMS PC3500LL 2 3 2 6 1TXFX 7900 GTX 690/1750XFX 7800 GTX 515/135024 inch Widescreen LCDDual 19 inch LCD'sRaid-0+1PCPower and Cooling 1khttp://home.comcast.net/~psolk/3monitorsa.htmlBackup RigAMD 4000 San Diego @ 2.72 Gigs Kingston Corsair XMS CL2XFX 7800 GTX 515/1350 Raid-0