News from LR

[Greazer 1,320]

The Laminar guys will say or do anything at this point.  They are having a panic attack because MSFS is releasing in under 2 weeks.  And now reality is setting in. They assumed MSFS would be around Xmas time but its way earlier. That's why they're talking about a release candidate for Vulkan already, but it still has heaps of bugs and performance is worse then OpenGL 11.41.  Really a disaster.   Instead of doing a port they should have rebuilt the XP core engine from the ground up to be efficient and support Vulkan multi threading. Support proper CPU /  GPU scheduling. If it was coded properly you wouldn't be seeing the poor performance that Vulkan is today.

Greazer. 

 

Edited August 5, 2020 by Greazer

[Greazer 1,320]

10 hours ago, Mike44 said:

As important as weather is scenery. Unless XP12 will have some sort of similar scenery to FS2020 it will lose a lot of users. Unlike P3D it will survive anyway.

MSFS has jumped about 25 years ahead of XP in terms of technology and visuals, and at the same time proved that you can get photo realistic graphics and good performance out of an actual flight simulator (something I have had to explain countless times over the years).  And to think the whole MSFS software was developed in the time that Laminar have been blogging and coding on Vulkan.  Even with Vulkan there are no actual improvements.  You still have these cardboard trees. You still have 2d clouds. Which of course still flicker.  And you still have sudden weather redraws where the whole sky goes blue and then it re-renders.  How long can it take to fix such annoyingly ridiculous things which go on and on like forever.  It's true MSFS is a big kick in the pants to LR.  And they really need it!

[mSparks 2,086]

2 hours ago, Greazer said:

The Laminar guys will say or do anything at this point. 

Yes, it really is that good. But just because they can, doesn't mean they will or should.

This isn't really news tbh, the NOAA plugin is free and already does all of this cross platform for XP11.

2 hours ago, Greazer said:

They are having a panic attack because MSFS is releasing in under 2 weeks.

Eager anticipation for the fallout tbh.

2 hours ago, Greazer said:

That's why they're talking about a release candidate for Vulkan already, but it still has heaps of bugs and performance is worse then OpenGL 11.41

Absolute nonsense. 11.41 is unplayable due to stutters and unstable frames. 11.51 is rock solid for 12 hour long hauls.

2 hours ago, Greazer said:

 Instead of doing a port they should have rebuilt the XP core engine from the ground up to be efficient and support Vulkan multi threading. Support proper CPU /  GPU scheduling. If it was coded properly you wouldn't be seeing the poor performance that Vulkan is today.

More nonesense.

The Vulkan engine is a complete rewrite from the ground up for both openGL and Vulkan, it had to be, because (not unlike any future MS move from DX11 to DX12) nothing from the openGL engine could be reused.

2 hours ago, Greazer said:

If it was coded properly you wouldn't be seeing the poor performance that Vulkan is today.

100fps on a mid to high end system is not poor performance.

2 hours ago, Greazer said:

MSFS has jumped about 25 years ahead of XP in terms of technology and visuals

So its been said. Personally I'm really excited to watch the reaction when people find out for themselves if this is true or not and can speak openly about it.

2 hours ago, Greazer said:

proved that you can get photo realistic graphics and good performance out of an actual flight simulator

But not good enough performance for consumer VR it seems. We need a snazzy name for those still stuck on 2D flight simulation.

2 hours ago, Greazer said:

Even with Vulkan there are no actual improvements. 

I hear this is actually true on windows.

AIUI this is something to do with windows being still only designed for games that use one or two cores at most, rather than complex multi-core simulation that has been the bread and butter of Posix systems for the last 40 years.

2 hours ago, Greazer said:

You still have 2d clouds. Which of course still flicker.  And you still have sudden weather redraws where the whole sky goes blue and then it re-renders

Rather than sprawling out the above brain fart, perhaps it would've helped if you read the forum just a little.

Edited August 5, 2020 by mSparks

[mjrhealth 820]

3 hours ago, Greazer said:

The Laminar guys will say or do anything at this point.  They are having a panic attack because MSFS is releasing in under 2 weeks.  And now reality is setting in. They assumed MSFS would be around Xmas time but its way earlier. That's why they're talking about a release candidate for Vulkan already, but it still has heaps of bugs and performance is worse then OpenGL 11.41.  Really a disaster.   Instead of doing a port they should have rebuilt the XP core engine from the ground up to be efficient and support Vulkan multi threading. Support proper CPU /  GPU scheduling. If it was coded properly you wouldn't be seeing the poor performance that Vulkan is today.

Greazer. 

 

So why are you here wining and not at home flying MS 2020. If you hate xplane so much than go fly something else.

[Glenn_C 135]

15 minutes ago, mjrhealth said:

So why are you here wining and not at home flying MS 2020. If you hate xplane so much than go fly something else.

The best thing you can do is hover over your profile name top right, left click , select ignored users, add user to said ignore list, lead a happy X-Plane forum life 🙂 Seriously these types of users who only come and complain and troll, yes this same user did this before , are best ignored, totally. I come here to view topics on X-Plane and talk about the sim in a good way and have no time for people constantly trashing it.

[Janov 2,383]

9 minutes ago, Glenn_C said:

talk about the sim in a good way and have no time for people constantly trashing it.

I actually feel sorry for the guys over at the MSFS forum once that is out and Greazer starts to complain about it there 😄

Maybe they will wish for mSparks to come back!

Edited August 5, 2020 by Janov

[fogboundturtle 2,708]

Until I see it with my own eyes in XP11/12 is just more talk from Austin. Lighting and weather is a big issue right now.  The plane looks nice with all the PBR textures but the rest of the world looks flat and dull. That's entirely on lighting.  Also, for the performance you get out of the sim, the visual feels outdated.  So, LR, put your money where your mouth is and deliver XP12 that actually feels like it's a new generation of flight sim. XP11 was not it.

[mSparks 2,086]

56 minutes ago, fogboundturtle said:

That's entirely on lighting.

Yes.

Which is why those of us "in the know" are so excited for Vulkan and RTX30XX (regardless of what Austin does afterwards)

All that lovely lighting you see in AAA games was done in multi million dollar render farms (On NVIDIA + Linux) before the AAA game shipped, not suitable for a full open world.

In the last 2 or 3 years (aka current gen) half decent global illumination algorithms have come out that can reduce the load needed, nowhere near as good as prebaked lighting, but allows at least some variation in the time of day even if it looks awful (like you see in MSFS clouds)

Post Vulkan is for sure straight to "next gen" for the next version of lighting for XP (which was intentionally left the same by Laminar for XP11 - because it increases the minimum system requirements), XP11 is open enough that someone will do it for XP11 even if Laminar do it (better) themselves for XP12. If you haven't seen what this looks like, check the new unreal demo for PS5.

DX11 specialists need not apply.

Edited August 5, 2020 by mSparks

[mjrhealth 820]

1 hour ago, Glenn_C said:

The best thing you can do is hover over your profile name top right, left click , select ignored users, add user to said ignore list, lead a happy X-Plane forum life 🙂 Seriously these types of users who only come and complain and troll, yes this same user did this before , are best ignored, totally. I come here to view topics on X-Plane and talk about the sim in a good way and have no time for people constantly trashing it.

Why, makes me feel better to see so many sad people out there.

[GoranM 3,764]

7 hours ago, Greazer said:

The Laminar guys will say or do anything at this point.  They are having a panic attack because MSFS is releasing in under 2 weeks.  And now reality is setting in. They assumed MSFS would be around Xmas time but its way earlier. That's why they're talking about a release candidate for Vulkan already, but it still has heaps of bugs and performance is worse then OpenGL 11.41.  Really a disaster.   Instead of doing a port they should have rebuilt the XP core engine from the ground up to be efficient and support Vulkan multi threading. Support proper CPU /  GPU scheduling. If it was coded properly you wouldn't be seeing the poor performance that Vulkan is today.

Greazer. 

 

Wow!  You're really informed on the current happenings around the Laminar offices!  I've seen completely different posts in the Laminar Slack group.  Where did you get all this information??

[Hopkinsstevea 7]

Laminar is doing a great job the sim keeps getting better and better , I use it with Aerowinx PSX as a scenery generator and its flawless both programs are phenomenal together. Keep up the good work guys you deserve to do well.  

[strider1 575]

14 hours ago, Greazer said:

MSFS has jumped about 25 years ahead of XP in terms of technology and visuals, and at the same time proved that you can get photo realistic graphics and good performance out of an actual flight simulator (something I have had to explain countless times over the years).  And to think the whole MSFS software was developed in the time that Laminar have been blogging and coding on Vulkan.  Even with Vulkan there are no actual improvements.  You still have these cardboard trees. You still have 2d clouds. Which of course still flicker.  And you still have sudden weather redraws where the whole sky goes blue and then it re-renders.  How long can it take to fix such annoyingly ridiculous things which go on and on like forever.  It's true MSFS is a big kick in the pants to LR.  And they really need it!

I guess you are not beta tester? Or have never flown a real plane with modern glass panel/GPS?

[scotchegg 4,186]

16 hours ago, mSparks said:

I'm really excited to watch the reaction when people find out for themselves if this is true or not and can speak openly about it.

Hopefully you won’t consider it too much of a challenge to your riveting insights to deal with a prediction: people who have already expressed a strong opinion about MSFS are likely to have already fixed these opinions and are unlikely to be changed by what they find on the 18th. Many will be gobsmacked and delighted. Many will be frustrated and disappointed. There will be a range of reactions roughly mirroring the speculation, but the consensus will probably be it’s not perfect and needs time to mature, but shows way more potential than XP or P3D.

I’m sure you will keep an open and objective mind to it. /s

[mSparks 2,086]

1 hour ago, scotchegg said:

strong opinion about MSFS are likely to have already fixed these opinions and are unlikely to be changed by what they find on the 18th

True that, although they mostly seem to have already vanished into the ether[net] or found other things to talk about.

They were also always just the vocal minority.

Its already nice to see the conversation has mostly shifted from

"FSX and P3D ... -> MSFS2020 is going to do X Y Z impossible things (xplane is dead)"

To

"MSFS 2020 looks great sometimes but it will be a long while before its as good a flight sim X-Plane."

Edited August 6, 2020 by mSparks

[GoranM 3,764]

45 minutes ago, scotchegg said:

but shows way more potential than XP or P3D.

First you say this^^

Then you contradict yourself by saying this...
 

46 minutes ago, scotchegg said:

I’m sure you will keep an open and objective mind to it. /s

 

And so the circle continues.  FS2020 vs X-Plane