News from LR

[mSparks 2,086]

3 hours ago, snglecoil said:

My fear based on history is that it will take years before we see it implemented in X-Plane. 

At least we can expect him to be working on it for a long time to come.

Its to late in the dev cycle for any of the competition to make major changes now. Asobo devs already moved on their new project (A sequel to their smash hit A Plagues Tale)

Edited August 7, 2020 by mSparks

[snglecoil 1,828]

51 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Asobo devs already moved on their new project (A sequel to their smash hit A Plagues Tale)

Right...because every other statement you have made regarding MSFS has been spot on. 🙄

Edited August 7, 2020 by snglecoil

[mSparks 2,086]

39 minutes ago, snglecoil said:

Right...because every other statement you have made regarding MSFS has been spot on. 🙄

Only thing I know I got wrong /was surprised by so far was it listing on steam. I personally thought it would be better than that.

[Bjoern 1,157]

13 hours ago, Janov said:

There is also no denying that X-Plane is ahead of MSFS in:

• VR
• Scope of aircraft modeled (Helicopters)
• Third party availability (complex aircraft)
• Accuracy of airports (except for maybe the 40 handcrafted ones in MSFS)
• Simulator functions (replay, exact weather settings, failures)
• Accessability and modding (aircraft, scenery, community efforts)

I have to veto the third party, airport and sim function items.

Third party content with a high degree of realism depends on the availability and completeness of the SDK but is basically guaranteed. I've seen in-sim screenshots from at least one high profile add-on developer that is porting its portfolio to FS20 and these guys don't mess around when it comes to complexity.

Airport accuracy is again dependent on toolsets and the SDK. AFAIK, FS20 will come with an airport editor, which means that a lot of airports will see community-driven updates over the product life cycle. The advantage X-Plane has in that regard is the Gateway and rolling updated airports and airfields into the default sim via updates. To my knowledge, FS20 does not offer something similar yet.

Regarding the bugs it tends to bring with third party content, I would not rate XP's replay system very high.
Regarding weather and considering what I've seen in the demo videos so far, there do seem to be functions to customize the current weather, so X-Plane has no advantage there.
X-Plane's failure modeling is also rather crude with no track record of component condition. Also, compared to previous Microsoft sims, Laminar simply remembered to code a failure state for more systems.

Finally, you forgot X-Plane's biggest advantage over MSFS: Multiplatform compatibility with native releases for all three major operating systems.
 

[Janov 2,383]

Well, Björn, unfortunately you are comparing a (possible) future MSFS to a present day X-Plane. That does not work.

I can just as well claim to know that X-Plane will get a new weather, scenery and ATC system in November which will blow MSFS away. See - I won 😉

X-Plane´s replay system wins even if it is not perfect - because MSFS has none.

X-Plane´s third party content wins - because MSFS has none.

X-Plane can set a specific RVR for low-visibility-training - MSFS can´t.

X-plane´s failure simulation is not crude - what you are describing is a "wear and tear" simulation that has A.) nothing to do with a failure simulation and B.) does not really play a role in aircraft operation because certified maintenance intervals replace parts before their MTBF reaches a low enough value that failure is likely due to wear and tear. Its a gameplay gimmick on some third party aircraft for the easily amused.

I cede your point on multiplatform compatibility - and of course the "mobile" spin-off that reaches a lot of people, appearantly.

Jan

 

Edited August 7, 2020 by Janov

[fogboundturtle 2,708]

The game isn't out yet. Let the game release, there is some 3rd party content schedule for day 1. 

[tonywob 4,769]

The store will be full off products on release day by the lucky ones... this is pretty much a given 🙂

34 minutes ago, Janov said:

I can just as well claim to know that X-Plane will get a new weather, scenery and ATC system in November which will blow MSFS away. See - I won 😉

You had me excited there until I saw the wink 🙂

[Murmur 3,941]

1 hour ago, Janov said:

what you are describing is a "wear and tear" simulation that has A.) nothing to do with a failure simulation and B.) does not really play a role in aircraft operation because certified maintenance intervals replace parts before their MTBF reaches a low enough value that failure is likely due to wear and tear. Its a gameplay gimmick on some third party aircraft for the easily amused.

Finally someone said it! ☺️

[FlyBaby 659]

19 hours ago, Janov said:

Nobody likes rain on their parade, I guess.

Be sure to take cover on Aug 18th....I hear there is a storm coming....

[Theboot100 404]

5 hours ago, Janov said:

Well, Björn, unfortunately you are comparing a (possible) future MSFS to a present day X-Plane. That does not work.

I can just as well claim to know that X-Plane will get a new weather, scenery and ATC system in November which will blow MSFS away. See - I won 😉

X-Plane´s replay system wins even if it is not perfect - because MSFS has none.

X-Plane´s third party content wins - because MSFS has none.

X-Plane can set a specific RVR for low-visibility-training - MSFS can´t.

X-plane´s failure simulation is not crude - what you are describing is a "wear and tear" simulation that has A.) nothing to do with a failure simulation and B.) does not really play a role in aircraft operation because certified maintenance intervals replace parts before their MTBF reaches a low enough value that failure is likely due to wear and tear. Its a gameplay gimmick on some third party aircraft for the easily amused.

I cede your point on multiplatform compatibility - and of course the "mobile" spin-off that reaches a lot of people, appearantly.

Jan

 

The worrying thing is 430 third party developer have signed on to MSFS, including pretty much all the big ones.

Third party developers go where the users go, and also drive the longetivity of the sim. If the user base massively skews towards MSFS most third party developers wont bother developing for the minority sims.  It's where the money is.

Laminer are clearly aware and concerned about this with there recent outreach to 3rd party developers and trying to get feedback for additions to th SDK.

https://developer.x-plane.com/2020/07/x-plane-11-50-beta-17-performance-fixes/#comments

As an XPlane user and also someone excited for progress and a future MSFS user, i think Laminer are in for a fight to retain there user base and there third party developer base.

[mp15 138]

18 hours ago, tonywob said:

 

🙂

Time will tell in regards to the flight model, but I suspect the one in MFS is more than good enough for most users, and sooner or later there will be PMDG, A2A etc to cater for those who want more. 

 

 

 

I don't think these two could improve anything in the flight dynamics in regards to what the devs have done so far at the default aircraft.

[GoranM 3,764]

3 hours ago, FlyBaby said:

Be sure to take cover on Aug 18th....I hear there is a storm coming....

You're absolutely right.  I think Asobo and everyone waiting for FS2020 had better pack an umbrella.  Because this list is that of an incomplete sim, still in alpha, that is being hurriedly rushed out, that needs at least 3-6 months more work before it's ready for release.  I don't know a respectable 3rd party add on developer who would put out an aircraft with this many issues.  By the way, this list is current as of 6th of August, and has been made public.  So no NDA was broken in posting this.

2 hours ago, Theboot100 said:

The worrying thing is 430 third party developer have signed on to MSFS, including pretty much all the big ones.

Third party developers go where the users go, and also drive the longetivity of the sim. If the user base massively skews towards MSFS most third party developers wont bother developing for the minority sims.  It's where the money is.

Laminer are clearly aware and concerned about this with there recent outreach to 3rd party developers and trying to get feedback for additions to th SDK.

https://developer.x-plane.com/2020/07/x-plane-11-50-beta-17-performance-fixes/#comments

As an XPlane user and also someone excited for progress and a future MSFS user, i think Laminer are in for a fight to retain there user base and there third party developer base.

There have been 3rd party devs for X-Plane for about 20 years.  

Laminar have been aware that the MSFS franchise has been around for decades.  And this latest outreach is nothing new.  Laminar reached out to 3rd party devs about a year before FS2020 was even announced, to get ideas about what they wanted.  And many things you see in X-Plane today, is a result of that.  Laminar care about their customers, and their developers.  They always have.  It's why the UI was changed many years ago.  It's why some elements of the flight model have been changed.  

As far as Laminar retaining their developer base, I know of exactly 2 that have announced moving to FS2020 (and those 2 I haven't even heard of, tbh), and a 3rd who makes freeware, is considering it.  Other than that, they're all sticking with X-Plane.

Edited August 8, 2020 by GoranM

[scotchegg 4,186]

Oh Goran, it wasn’t more than two weeks ago that you said a) you rarely, if ever get involved in MSFS vs XP discussions and b) you wished this forum was for XPlane “ONLY” and if people wanted to discuss MSFS they should do it in the appropriate forums.

This is your 3rd post in this thread alone discussing MSFS and / or comparing it to XP, and this thread was only supposed to be discussing the news from LR. Pick a position, mate.

[Theboot100 404]

2 hours ago, GoranM said:

You're absolutely right.  I think Asobo and everyone waiting for FS2020 had better pack an umbrella.  Because this list is that of an incomplete sim, still in alpha, that is being hurriedly rushed out, that needs at least 3-6 months more work before it's ready for release.  I don't know a respectable 3rd party add on developer who would put out an aircraft with this many issues.  By the way, this list is current as of 6th of August, and has been made public.  So no NDA was broken in posting this.

There have been 3rd party devs for X-Plane for about 20 years.  

Laminar have been aware that the MSFS franchise has been around for decades.  And this latest outreach is nothing new.  Laminar reached out to 3rd party devs about a year before FS2020 was even announced, to get ideas about what they wanted.  And many things you see in X-Plane today, is a result of that.  Laminar care about their customers, and their developers.  They always have.  It's why the UI was changed many years ago.  It's why some elements of the flight model have been changed.  

As far as Laminar retaining their developer base, I know of exactly 2 that have announced moving to FS2020 (and those 2 I haven't even heard of, tbh), and a 3rd who makes freeware, is considering it.  Other than that, they're all sticking with X-Plane.

I do think theyre in for a fight.  There development team is the biggest it has ever been and that requires cashflow.  Outside of the base purchase of the sim the other cash income is mobile.

Xplane 12 will need to sell well.

Asobo will have an income from dlc releases and a cut from the market place.

Edited August 8, 2020 by Theboot100

[beep747 93]

Msfs2020 still has to prove itself. Initially,  it may attract GA flyers. But for airliner flyers, I think that  x-plane has much more to offer. And the prices PMDG asks for its -  great quality - products are very steep.