engine start switch and ILS diamonds

[Ephedrin 418]

good evening Bryan,

 

using the 747 (both 744 and 748) with SOP 1 I found 3 things. I haven't checked the other SOP.

 

1. when calling for engine starts I go 3-4-2-1 and when I call for "start engine one" the starter switch for engine 4 gets pulled again too.More noticable in the 744 as the light illuminates but it happens on all versions. 

2. When doing an ILS approach and the localizer diamond becomes active my FO calls "Glideslope active" and when the GS moves he calls LOC active. 

3. at T-9 minutes the rear left cargo door opens in the freighter and sometimes at T-2 ish the nose cargo door opens. 

 

I use version 1.6 in P3Dv4.5HF3, PMDG addon is up-to-date.

 

Cheers and thank you

Marc

[vc10man 732]

58 minutes ago, Ephedrin said:

good evening Bryan,

 

using the 747 (both 744 and 748) with SOP 1 I found 3 things. I haven't checked the other SOP.

 

1. when calling for engine starts I go 3-4-2-1 and when I call for "start engine one" the starter switch for engine 4 gets pulled again too.More noticable in the 744 as the light illuminates but it happens on all versions. 

2. When doing an ILS approach and the localizer diamond becomes active my FO calls "Glideslope active" and when the GS moves he calls LOC active. 

3. at T-9 minutes the rear left cargo door opens in the freighter and sometimes at T-2 ish the nose cargo door opens. 

 

I use version 1.6 in P3Dv4.5HF3, PMDG addon is up-to-date.

 

Cheers and thank you

Marc

There is something not quite right with the PMDG 747-8i and -8iF  with this FS2Crew, Marc.

Am on an 8-iF flight right now, sans FS2Crew, despite as Bryan pointing out, there are no FS2Crew entries in the panel.cfg for both 8i and 8iF, although they are there for the -400, the -BCF 400, etc. Uninstalled and re-installed the FS2Crew add-on. Still the same.

So, what you are experiencing I am not at all surprised as IMHO, there is something not quite 100%. After all, logic states, why would the add-on that is supposed to work for all PMDG747 variants, yet invariably does not do so for the Expansion Package, i.e. the -8i and 8iF. Something is not quite right. And word not allowed if I am going to go through the whole rigmarole of uninstalling/re-installing the whole PMDG 747 setup.

[Ephedrin 418]

I understand that it's probably not easy to cover two models (which 744 and 748 basically are, RSR talked about it extensively when they released the -8 model, but Bryan decided to release the -8 compatibility as a free update instead of a paid upgrade. So he obviously had to make compromises, this is recognizable when it comes for example to the lower DU display buttons. You can't call for all of the pages in the -8 but often get the hyrdaulics or fuel page. It's something I can deal with. But the engine 4 starter switch gets pulled on ALL models and that is certainly not correct and I suppose the LVAR is the same on both the 744 and the expansion. Regarding the ILS diamonds I noticed this about a year ago but never reported it, I wonder that nobody came up with it so it might be something on my side. That's why I refrained from writing "I found three bugs" as I don't know it and simply reported "issues". He's the one who has code insight and may be able to help (or fix it). Same for number 3. Can easily be something that needs to be changed in the PMDG options in the CDU on my side. 

Edited August 8, 2020 by Ephedrin

[vc10man 732]

1 hour ago, Ephedrin said:

You can't call for all of the pages in the -8 but often get the hyrdaulics or fuel page.

Good points you raise, Marc, but odd how you and I perceive this particular variant. I can get the Fuel page up in the Lower DU no problem; I can get the Electrics page up no problem; I can also get the ACARS page up no problem, in fact all the Pages. And I did a 4-3-2-1 engine start no problem and each starter switch pulled okay to start the relevant engine

I was going to suggest that I'd keep an eye on that diamond on the ILS approach into BIKF but pointless since my FS2Crew will not even load up, but will keep an eye for it on the -BCF and -400 variants where it does load up.

[Ephedrin 418]

12 minutes ago, vc10man said:

Good points you raise, Marc, but odd how you and I perceive this particular variant. I can get the Fuel page up in the Lower DU no problem; I can get the Electrics page up no problem; I can also get the ACARS page up no problem, in fact all the Pages. And I did a 4-3-2-1 engine start no problem and each starter switch pulled okay to start the relevant engine

I was going to suggest that I'd keep an eye on that diamond on the ILS approach into BIKF but pointless since my FS2Crew will not even load up, but will keep an eye for it on the -BCF and -400 variants where it does load up.

the lower DU calls work just per the 747 main ops manual page 56. Everything listed there works as expected but "Flight Controls" can not be requested. In thge 744 they are part of the status page. the rest is most likely my pronounciation (native german speaker) and "electronics" and "hydraulics" might sound similar to the voice control. anyway, that's not my problem. When I ask for "start engine 1" it pulls both 1 and 4, not sure atm if it's the same time or with delay though. I'll have another look at the diamonds so I can describe precisely what I see and hear. 

[vc10man 732]

Nothing wrong, at  least I'd think so, with your native German accent because your English is perfect, Mark. Wish my non-existent German was a mere fraction of your level of English.

But what intrigues me, even if you have the Voice Control version, why would the word 'hydraulics' crop up anywhere except the 'Before Start' checks, when the FO asks 'Are we cleared to pressurize?'  So, I am baffled where the cross-over 'electronics/hydraulics' takes place in your Voice Control version.

I know that you are no novice when it comes to the 747 having read your well-thought out posts elsewhere(nudge, nudge, wink, wink!!)

 

[vc10man 732]

Uninstalled both PMDG 747-8i Expansion and FS2Crew thinking it might rectify why FS2Crew is not even enabling itself for that particular aircraft. What a sheer and utter waste of time😡

There has to be something not quite right with FS2Crew for this PMDG Expansion. Does nothing at all in the -8i and -8iF panel.cfg.

[byork 2,258]

9 hours ago, Ephedrin said:

good evening Bryan,

 

using the 747 (both 744 and 748) with SOP 1 I found 3 things. I haven't checked the other SOP.

 

1. when calling for engine starts I go 3-4-2-1 and when I call for "start engine one" the starter switch for engine 4 gets pulled again too.More noticable in the 744 as the light illuminates but it happens on all versions. 

2. When doing an ILS approach and the localizer diamond becomes active my FO calls "Glideslope active" and when the GS moves he calls LOC active. 

3. at T-9 minutes the rear left cargo door opens in the freighter and sometimes at T-2 ish the nose cargo door opens. 

 

I use version 1.6 in P3Dv4.5HF3, PMDG addon is up-to-date.

 

Cheers and thank you

Marc

Hi Marc,

1. I just did a clean install of everything and updated the PMDG 747.

I did "Start Engine 4.... 3.... 2... 1".  It went perfect.

When I said Start Engine 1, it only pulled #1.

Do you have auto start enabled on your plane?  What did you see in the "green bar".

 

2. SDK limits don't allow us to read the position of the Loc/GS diamonds.  So we have to try to "guess" using what other limited data is available to us.

We do our best with what we have, but it's never going to be 100 percent perfect all the time.... unless PMDG updates their SDK to allow us to read the diamonds better.


3. It's probably multiple addons fighting over doors.  PMDG, GSX, FS2Crew, we all can and try to control the doors at the same time.  There's an option to disable FS2Crew door control if you find it's problematic.


Rick, please don't create multiple thread.  I replied to your panel.cfg issue in your original thread.

 

[Ephedrin 418]

7 hours ago, byork said:

Hi Marc,

1. I just did a clean install of everything and updated the PMDG 747.

I did "Start Engine 4.... 3.... 2... 1".  It went perfect.

When I said Start Engine 1, it only pulled #1.

Do you have auto start enabled on your plane?  What did you see in the "green bar".

 

2. SDK limits don't allow us to read the position of the Loc/GS diamonds.  So we have to try to "guess" using what other limited data is available to us.

We do our best with what we have, but it's never going to be 100 percent perfect all the time.... unless PMDG updates their SDK to allow us to read the diamonds better.


3. It's probably multiple addons fighting over doors.  PMDG, GSX, FS2Crew, we all can and try to control the doors at the same time.  There's an option to disable FS2Crew door control if you find it's problematic.


Rick, please don't create multiple thread.  I replied to your panel.cfg issue in your original thread.

 

thank you for the detailed explanation Bryan.

 

I totally understand number 2 then and it makes sense to me. Number 3 is a point I have to look for. I usally don't use GSX anymore since I have UGCX but it is installed on the PC. I'll try to eliminate the culprit. As I said above, it's probably me anyway 😄

Regarding No 1 there must be something off then. I have already excluded the possibility of a bad panel state and overall I'd consider myself as an experienced PMDG user so I have done a lot of testing about this issue before I came here. I'm not sure though what you mean with "auto start enabled". A sim function? No. The 747-8 of course has an auto start sequence and so do some 747-400s. The version I flew last when I saw this happen didn't have it though. The green bar says "Start engine one". Anyway if it works fine on your side it's pointless to argue that there must be something wrong but it's better to investigate on my side and if I find something to reproduce it I will come back to you. Again, thganks for your detailed replies, they really help to understand what's going on.

 

 

Rick,

12 hours ago, vc10man said:

Nothing wrong, at  least I'd think so, with your native German accent because your English is perfect, Mark. Wish my non-existent German was a mere fraction of your level of English.

well, thank you. I've learned English at school for 9 years and did a school exchange to North Dakota and some language trips to Ireland and the UK. But that was 15+ years ago, I'm in my mid-thirties now and my vocabulary shrinks more and more, I have to look up more words every year. Also the exercise of actually speaking the language is missing so what I write is quite different to what I say. German must be a terrible language to study. Three gramatical genders that often don't make any sense, tenses that are totally different to the commonly spoken language and word combinations that even make us Germans laugh. And on top of that probably more exceptions than rules LOL. But in case you want to practise: Say Tschechische Streichholzschächtelchen. (czech match boxes)  Total killer for any english speakers 😄

Cheers 😃

Edited August 9, 2020 by Ephedrin

[byork 2,258]

Also, I might suggest a fresh, clean install of the PMDG 747.

Always use the stock PMDG panel states and don't use saved situation files.

These planes are very sensitive to how they're loaded, and if they're loaded incorrectly or the panel state is off in some way, you can experience odd behavior.

 

[Ephedrin 418]

On 8/9/2020 at 3:53 PM, byork said:

Also, I might suggest a fresh, clean install of the PMDG 747.

Always use the stock PMDG panel states and don't use saved situation files.

These planes are very sensitive to how they're loaded, and if they're loaded incorrectly or the panel state is off in some way, you can experience odd behavior.

 

Yes I'm currently beta testing PMDG's GFO so custom settings are not helpful at all to find any issues. The things I've described above however have bugged me for months now over several release versions.

But just as I am writing this I have an idea what could cause it. I use LINDA for when I don't use FS2Crew and I need to check a few assignments. I have noticed issues with manual button input lags when my Saitek throttles are fully idle as they sometimes constantly send the button signal, that is used for their "reversers". Those throttle quadrants are of REALLY bad quality. It could be that FS2Crew suffers from this too. I'll tell you if I find something. Until then I thank you for your explanations, they are really helpful! 

[byork 2,258]

It could be LINDA... try it without it.

Cheers,

 

[RISCfuture 2]

I also have the #4 start valve issue. I made a video of it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzFYqp0HIWA

Edited November 26, 2020 by RISCfuture

[byork 2,258]

Hi Tim,

I just watched your video... that was a really nice video...  I could use that as a UGCX and FS2Crew promo almost.

I didn't see any start valve issue though.... it's hard to tell from a video, but it looked fine from my side.

[RISCfuture 2]

On 11/26/2020 at 11:04 PM, byork said:

Hi Tim,

I just watched your video... that was a really nice video...  I could use that as a UGCX and FS2Crew promo almost.

I didn't see any start valve issue though.... it's hard to tell from a video, but it looked fine from my side.

Thanks, I try to take the procedures to heart.

I just confirmed it again. She definitely pulls both start levers 3 and 4 when starting engine 3, every time. It's hard to see in the video -- I could remake it in "promo quality" with the correct aspect ratio and resolution -- but the red line is there on the engine 4 EGT gauge when she starts engine 3, because she pulls both levers.