On 8/14/2020 at 10:29 PM, Der Zeitgeist said:

As far as I understand it, Steam only provides the interface for purchasing the title and the wrapper for launching it. Everything else happens inside the MSFS program itself, including the flight sim market and the whole multiplayer interface.

The one thing that has not been definitely confirmed is how VR will eventually be implemented, and if the Steam version will use the Steam VR interface for that (which would be great for VR users not using Windows Mixed Reality headsets). 

I'd wager the Launcher will control the VR output so it will more than likely bypass anything in Steam. If they use SteamVR then they wouldn't of said all WMR HMDs support from the first VR update with others to follow as with SteamVR you open up pretty much all the others.

Edited August 16, 20205 yr by MarcG

4 minutes ago, MarcG said:

I'd wager the Launcher will control the VR output so it will not than likely bypass anything in Steam. If they use SteamVR then they wouldn't of said all WMR HMDs support from the first VR update with others to follow as with SteamVR you open up pretty much all the others.

Yes. that's what I suspect, too. I hope we don't have to wait too long before other HMDs are supported. I'd really like to use my Oculus Quest (with link) when Winter comes.

On 8/15/2020 at 12:18 PM, OzWhitey said:

You don't know that, though. People used to think standard and Steam DCS were the same thing, didn't turn out that way. 

Even if they're the same now, you don't know that beta versions and patches will be delivered at the same time in the future. Just like ED with DCS, there's a fair bit of motivation for MS to make the non-Steam version the preferred platform over time.

I run the non Steam version of DCS as they previously had some extra copy protection mess where you locally activated the keys for each aircraft via some Star Force protection scheme. So the reason they got their problems with the Steam and the non-Steam version is due to that. They switched quite some time ago to link your purchased products to your account instead so now it should work just as good no matter the version you are using. But I think that there are some old discontinued modules using the old copy protection that do not work with Steam.

DCS is the only of my 117 Steam games where I went back to the "native" client instead of the convenience of having them in Steam with automatic updates working like a charm etc. And they have admitted themselves that the old module activation scheme was a mess that caused a lot of problems. And Steam is very stable and almost NEVER down or having problems logging in etc. (have used it since they released the first beta of Steam). I cannot say that for the MS store that works really bad IMO. Login problems, account mixup problems, weird error pages etc.

And regarding modding you Steam files it's perfectly possible to mess around as much as you like in the install folder of the game. As long as you do not mess with the main exe file that has the copy protection linked. I have quite some folders that do not look at all like the stuff Steam installs there. No problem at all.

But if you like a clean E:\MSFS folder where the msfs.exe file is in that folder it won't work. You can have multiple Steam "libraries" spread out over different drives. The default one is C:\Program Files\..." like in the image below where I have added a library with all my games on "D:\Steam\". As seen I only have 3 games in the library on C - you cannot delete it anyway as it keeps some generic small stuff there. But as seen I have almost all my games under D:\Steam.

But be aware that it ends up with a folder structure anyway where XP11 ends up in "D:\Steam\SteamApps\common\X-Plane 11" with my example. A bit annoying but add a shortcut to "D:\Steam\SteamApps\common\" and that is your "Steam Game root" with all your games.

Edited August 16, 20205 yr by mazex

A suggestion: get 1$ subscription for Xbox Game Pass for a month, evaluate, and then buy on steam if you like.

25 minutes ago, mazex said:

I run the non Steam version of DCS as they previously had some extra copy protection mess where you locally activated the keys for each aircraft via some Star Force protection scheme. So the reason they got their problems with the Steam and the non-Steam version is due to that. They switched quite some time ago to link your purchased products to your account instead so now it should work just as good no matter the version you are using. But I think that there are some old discontinued modules using the old copy protection that do not work with Steam.

DCS is the only of my 117 Steam games where I went back to the "native" client instead of the convenience of having them in Steam with automatic updates working like a charm etc. And they have admitted themselves that the old module activation scheme was a mess that caused a lot of problems. And Steam is very stable and almost NEVER down or having problems logging in etc. (have used it since they released the first beta of Steam). I cannot say that for the MS store that works really bad IMO. Login problems, account mixup problems, weird error pages etc.

 

Maz:

1. The difference with DCS Steam versus Dev version of DCS is more than just old copy protection.

Over time, the developed has become less interested in the Steam version, which makes sense as their profits are lower.

- Necessary updates to the sim - for example, an ability to run the new carrier addon - arrive much later to Steam than to the ED version (and I'm talking months+)

- There is no guarantee that an addon maker will support Steam. Maybe they will, maybe they won't.

I have both the ED and Steam versions of DCS. I started with Steam, as I like the idea of keeping all my games in one place. I have 503 (!) Steam titles in my library (just checked). So I obviously have nothing against Steam. I would never advise anyone to buy DCS on Steam, given my experience over the past 8 years.

2. In the past, I've bought X-plane on both Steam and direct from Laminar. If you check the beta forums for XP11, you'll see that Steam users often feel like second-class citizens. Beta versions are not available for them at a time when other users are happily flying the latest version. Steam users often seem sad. I feel bad for them. 😞

MSFS was not originally planned to be launched on Steam in the short term (based on previous dev statements) - this was a "sometime in the future" plan. They seem to have had a change of heart, and the obvious reason for this is to trade profit-per-sale for a larger market share. In the longer term, it is more attractive for MS to sell direct to consumers.

Right now, NO ONE knows how addon distribution is going to work:

From RSR today:

"There is still not much clarity on this topic, at least not as far as the developer community is concerned, as much of what has been described to us as functionality has not actually been demonstrated in a live-fire exercise, because at least as far as the airplane development community is concerned, the simulation platform is a ways off from being ready to support the work of developers like PMDG.

We have had a number of conversations off/on with Microsoft/Asobo on the topic of distribution, but invariably there are so many mountains to climb just to get one of our products to work in the platform, that the distribution conversation winds up being sidetracked since it is a bit like trying to decide which color leather interior we will have in our new supersonic business jet, while we are still trying to design a wing that will stay together at Mach 1.0"

.In short:

- You may not get prompt access to updates on Steam (based on the DCS and X-plane experience)

- Nobody knows how addons will interface with MSFS, including the difference between MS and Steam version.

There's a solid chance that Steam will be just fine and I'm still seriously considering going that way myself. However, anyone who asserts that that there will be no future difference between addons and updates is greatly oversimplifying the matter. Maybe someone at Asobo has a clear plan, but if so they have not communicated it to major developers yet. Even if they have a plan now, plans can change (as they did for DCS).

Right now, I'm 80% likely to buy the direct-from-MS version, and I'm saying this as a long-time Steam superfan.

 

 

 

 

    

On 8/15/2020 at 12:18 PM, OzWhitey said:

You don't know that, though. People used to think standard and Steam DCS were the same thing, didn't turn out that way. 

Even if they're the same now, you don't know that beta versions and patches will be delivered at the same time in the future. Just like ED with DCS, there's a fair bit of motivation for MS to make the non-Steam version the preferred platform over time.

All I've heard from the devs so far is that the "User experience" will be the same. Install location will be different, yes? So there's no 100% guarantee that both products will remain the same forever or even be identical at launch.

Actually I do know that....

20 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

Maz:

1. The difference with DCS Steam versus Dev version of DCS is more than just old copy protection.

Over time, the developed has become less interested in the Steam version, which makes sense as their profits are lower.

- Necessary updates to the sim - for example, an ability to run the new carrier addon - arrive much later to Steam than to the ED version (and I'm talking months+)

- There is no guarantee that an addon maker will support Steam. Maybe they will, maybe they won't.

I have both the ED and Steam versions of DCS. I started with Steam, as I like the idea of keeping all my games in one place. I have 503 (!) Steam titles in my library (just checked). So I obviously have nothing against Steam. I would never advise anyone to buy DCS on Steam, given my experience over the past 8 years.

2. In the past, I've bought X-plane on both Steam and direct from Laminar. If you check the beta forums for XP11, you'll see that Steam users often feel like second-class citizens. Beta versions are not available for them at a time when other users are happily flying the latest version. Steam users often seem sad. I feel bad for them. 😞

MSFS was not originally planned to be launched on Steam in the short term (based on previous dev statements) - this was a "sometime in the future" plan. They seem to have had a change of heart, and the obvious reason for this is to trade profit-per-sale for a larger market share. In the longer term, it is more attractive for MS to sell direct to consumers.

Right now, NO ONE knows how addon distribution is going to work:

From RSR today:

"There is still not much clarity on this topic, at least not as far as the developer community is concerned, as much of what has been described to us as functionality has not actually been demonstrated in a live-fire exercise, because at least as far as the airplane development community is concerned, the simulation platform is a ways off from being ready to support the work of developers like PMDG.

We have had a number of conversations off/on with Microsoft/Asobo on the topic of distribution, but invariably there are so many mountains to climb just to get one of our products to work in the platform, that the distribution conversation winds up being sidetracked since it is a bit like trying to decide which color leather interior we will have in our new supersonic business jet, while we are still trying to design a wing that will stay together at Mach 1.0"

.In short:

- You may not get prompt access to updates on Steam (based on the DCS and X-plane experience)

- Nobody knows how addons will interface with MSFS, including the difference between MS and Steam version.

There's a solid chance that Steam will be just fine and I'm still seriously considering going that way myself. However, anyone who asserts that that there will be no future difference between addons and updates is greatly oversimplifying the matter. Maybe someone at Asobo has a clear plan, but if so they have not communicated it to major developers yet. Even if they have a plan now, plans can change (as they did for DCS).

Right now, I'm 80% likely to buy the direct-from-MS version, and I'm saying this as a long-time Steam superfan.

 

 

 

 

    

If you view Robert's message in its entirety it reads a bit more positive than you portray at least in my opinion when it comes to pmdg

 

I am going to be very specific here on how I answer your question.

what I think you want to know is: 'If I buy this via steam or Windows Store, will it appreciably change my customer experience as far as getting my add-ons such as pmdg products?"

The answer to that question is: You are safe getting it from either venue.

Now- precisely how you get your add-ons installed will vary quite a bit, I suspect, based upon whether you get the add-on via the in-game store or from the developer directly. There is still not much clarity on this topic, at least not as far as the developer community is concerned, as much of what has been described to us as functionality has not actually been demonstrated in a live-fire exercise, because at least as far as the airplane development community is concerned, the simulation platform is a ways off from being ready to support the work of developers like PMDG.

We have had a number of conversations off/on with Microsoft/Asobo on the topic of distribution, but invariably there are so many mountains to climb just to get one of our products to work in the platform, that the distribution conversation winds up being sidetracked since it is a bit like trying to decide which color leather interior we will have in our new supersonic business jet, while we are still trying to design a wing that will stay together at Mach 1.0.

I hope that makes sense.
 

Robert S. Randazzo 
PMDG Simulations
http://www.pmdg.com

Edited August 16, 20205 yr by suchw

1 minute ago, suchw said:

If you view Robert's message in its entirety it reads a bit more positive than you portray at least in my opinion

 

I am going to be very specific here on how I answer your question.

what I think you want to know is: 'If I buy this via steam or Windows Store, will it appreciably change my customer experience as far as getting my add-ons such as pmdg products?"

The answer to that question is: You are safe getting it from either venue.

Now- precisely how you get your add-ons installed will vary quite a bit, I suspect, based upon whether you get the add-on via the in-game store or from the developer directly. There is still not much clarity on this topic, at least not as far as the developer community is concerned, as much of what has been described to us as functionality has not actually been demonstrated in a live-fire exercise, because at least as far as the airplane development community is concerned, the simulation platform is a ways off from being ready to support the work of developers like PMDG.

We have had a number of conversations off/on with Microsoft/Asobo on the topic of distribution, but invariably there are so many mountains to climb just to get one of our products to work in the platform, that the distribution conversation winds up being sidetracked since it is a bit like trying to decide which color leather interior we will have in our new supersonic business jet, while we are still trying to design a wing that will stay together at Mach 1.0.

I hope that makes sense.
 

Robert S. Randazzo 
PMDG Simulations
http://www.pmdg.com

It doesn't need "postivity". The simple summary is he doesn't know how this is going to work. He can speculate. People here can speculate. But those who state as fact that MS version and Steam will be the same are being overly simplistic. Nobody here (or at PMDG) knows exactly how addons will work, how they will be priced, what the install procedure will be and whether this will differ between MS and Steam. .

30 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

It doesn't need "postivity". The simple summary is he doesn't know how this is going to work. He can speculate. People here can speculate. But those who state as fact that MS version and Steam will be the same are being overly simplistic. Nobody here (or at PMDG) knows exactly how addons will work, how they will be priced, what the install procedure will be and whether this will differ between MS and Steam. .

Yeh your right,seems like the safest option would be to either hold of if your keen on steam until there is some clarity or just bite the bullet and buy on ms store

I'm having problems with MS Store/updates. Is steam at the same price?

 

1 hour ago, SimonC said:

A suggestion: get 1$ subscription for Xbox Game Pass for a month, evaluate, and then buy on steam if you like.

That is the route I took.  I too suggest this route if one is evaluating options.

Why is Steam "easier" than MS Store?

I don't know why people keep spreading this. 

They have just stated in the Developer Live Q&A, that there will be NO difference between the Steam version and the MS Store version!

Both versions, will install a launcher, which will act as the main gateway to the game. It will launch the game itself, handle updates, logins etc. Just like Red Dead Redemption and GTA V from RockStar Games on Steam does it. Elite Dangerous handles this, in the same manner as well. 

I don't understand the confusion... 

Edited August 17, 20205 yr by travelabroad

18 minutes ago, travelabroad said:

I don't know why people keep spreading this. 

They have just stated in the Developer Live Q&A, that there will be NO difference between the Steam version and the MS Store version!

Both versions, will install a launcher, which will act as the main gateway to the game. It will launch the game itself, handle updates, logins etc. Just like Red Dead Redemption and GTA V from RockStar Games on Steam does it. Elite Dangerous handles this, in the same manner as well. 

I don't understand the confusion... 

This is very common for games and not a big deal. I think flight simmers are used to convoluted installation steps and can't accept how simple this is.

4 minutes ago, Slides said:

This is very common for games and not a big deal. I think flight simmers are used to convoluted installation steps and can't accept how simple this is.

LOL! Yes, that's probably true.

But I also get a feeling, that sometimes people will try and continuously make an issue or problem out this, when there actually isn't any.