Yoke Pre-order questions

[109Sqn 1,551]

Just now, tutmeister said:

Once pre orders are satisfied the plan is to keep them as a stock item to be dispatched within a day of ordering. However, at the moment that would depend on future volumes versus the restrictions on throughput  that we are currently seeing.

Yokes are made in batches because the metalwork and electronics are ordered that way but at the moment it is more of a continuous process of trying to keep the parts flowing in.

Thanks for that. All sounds perfectly logical to me.👍

[Ray Proudfoot 8,921]

@109Sqn, agreed that springs should outlast bungees. Have you tried the Honeycomb? If you have been to the Cosford show in October (not this year sadly) the Honeycomb was on show as was the Fulcrum. If you haven’t tried the Honeycomb there is always the chance it may not be what you want.

I would say the nearest competitor to the Fulcrum is the Yoko from VirtualFly. But because it’s priced in Euros is very expensive because of the weakness of the GBP. If we were getting €1.60 to the Pound it would only be 600GBP and not around 850. In contrast, being British made the Fulcrum is a snip at under 450GBP.

[jon b 2,041]

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Instead of an “upper entry level” yoke go for a top class one that satisfies a real-world 747 pilot. 👍 

EX ☹️😢 747 pilot.

Like Ray I had a good look at the honeycomb at Cosford, and it’s a nice controller and has lots of different inputs , but that is exactly what it is, a controller. I found it good for controlling the simulated aircraft, but not particularly realistic to anything you’d find in real life.
 

The fulcrum on the other hand replicates the feel of a a real aircraft’s yoke, both with the feel of the metal yoke in your hand and the force and depth of travel.

It all depends on what people want out of their simulation setup, both options are good but have different aims.

The yoko plus is Very good, the price on chillblast’s website is £1165. Despite the higher price I still would have bought one  but I preferred  the feel and ergonomics of the fulcrum.

[F737MAX 5,508]

21 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I would say the nearest competitor to the Fulcrum is the Yoko from VirtualFly. But because it’s priced in Euros is very expensive because of the weakness of the GBP. If we were getting €1.60 to the Pound it would only be 600GBP and not around 850. In contrast, being British made the Fulcrum is a snip at under 450GBP.

Jeez Ray, the € / £ rate hasn't been at 1.60 since 2002...
Bounced around between 1.12 to 1.35 during most of the past 12 years.
https://www.macrotrends.net/2553/euro-british-pound-exchange-rate-historical-chart

The Yoko is incredibly expensive for what it is IMO. For €1,000 I expect an 'entry-level' full 737 yoke control column.

I've had my eye on the Fulcrum yoke for some time and I'm eagerly awaiting putting through my official order.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,921]

41 minutes ago, jon b said:

EX ☹️😢 747 pilot.

 

My sympathies Jon. I knew that but it doesn’t detract from your knowledge of the real thing when making the comparison.

36 minutes ago, F737NG said:

Jeez Ray, the € / £ rate hasn't been at 1.60 since 2002...
Bounced around between 1.12 to 1.35 during most of the past 12 years.
https://www.macrotrends.net/2553/euro-british-pound-exchange-rate-historical-chart

The Yoko is incredibly expensive for what it is IMO. For €1,000 I expect an 'entry-level' full 737 yoke control column.

I've had my eye on the Fulcrum yoke for some time and I'm eagerly awaiting putting through my official order.

Don’t I know it! On several trips to Spain starting in 2003 it was great but the rate went downhill after 2008. Agreed about the Yoko price. The original still had pots in it too. The + version went to HE sensors. Another price hike too. Plus it’s a huge case. It’s amazing how small the Fulcrum case is.

I can’t think of a single advantage the Yoko has over the Fulcrum. For Euro or USD customers it’s a bargain.

[109Sqn 1,551]

2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Have you tried the Honeycomb?

No, I've zero experience with a yoke, only having been steered by reviews, both personal and professional (i.e. dedicated websites and the like). I went from nearly buying the Saitek (because Amazon had it for a really low price) to abandoning that idea when I heard how relatively basic it is, being heavily influenced towards the Honeycomb because of users' glowing reports (and it's admittedly stylish appearance to now seriously thinking of spending more than I had ever planned, justified ,or wanted to spend!

On the subject of quality, it does make me think of my Logitech G29 Steering wheel. It' s very good item, but not in the class of the big bucks models. Still not cheap though. However, a couple years of instinctively pulling back on the wheel ended dup making the steering column flex in the base unit and I was worried it would get worse. I followed a detailed youtube video to open it up and tighten 2 screws which can work loose only to find they weren't the problem.

The column is held in place by 4 screws, the 2 already mentioned and 2 below those, i.e 4 screws in a square formation. The 2 known for coming loose are screwed into a metal plate but the other 2 are screwed into very thin posts which are part of the moulded plastic base of the wheel's housing! Of course, they had both snapped, meaning I couldn't properly fix the issue without sourcing a new housing. Superglue lasted a couple of weeks but after that I had to drill through the base and insert metal plates which are now held in place by bolts. Inelegant, but out of sight, and something Logitech should have used in the first place.🙄

So yes, I'm being swayed by the reassuring amount of metal in the Fulcrum's innards.

[109Sqn 1,551]

Forgot to add an off-topic but relevant note.

one of my concerns was of course the lack of a switch panel on the Fulcrum but I found this interesting hack. A  button box using a USB keypad. Very cheap and cheerful and whilst lacking the more realistic look and feel of switches, would do the job in a more compact form than a full keyboard.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,921]

@109Sqn, I would recommend you try the Honeycomb before you buy but I accept that could be difficult in these times. The feel is everything with a yoke which is something no review can tell you. Those 'button boxes' are very useful.

[NathanS 8]

@109Sqn I couldn't be more passionate about how the Fulcrum design aims to fix all the problems of the entry level yokes.

I’ve recommended the T1600M joystick over the saitek (/honeycomb) yokes. It’s the cheapest device with the HE sensors, and compared to my saitek cesna yoke, it just gave such a better feel to the aircraft. Yep, it didnt match the on screen yoke in the PIper, but my landings were suddenly much more accurate. Just my yoke, just my luck? All mechanical sensors will wear with time. You can clean them, with some success. The non-mechanical HE sensors are just so much more accurate as well as being more reliable.

Travel+detent. It wasn't until i started my PPL that i realised the yoke travel was a huge issue. Using a joystick at home, real life was just ‘different’. But using the yoke at home, my brain was ‘trained’ a bit to the sorter travel which was not helping. The detent just gets in the way, and provides a small zone where it feels all wrong and your small inputs adjustments are lost in mechanical gearing.

Oh, and the only saitek/logitech yoke available now doesn't even have 180’ rotation, (the saitek cesna yoke did - strange decision making there!)

I believe the honeycomb doesn't solve any of these - ive not tried it.

if there was a cheaper, plastic Fulcrum that still solved these issues, i’d probably get it.

But, like the car wheels you mention - there’s plenty cheaper than the G29. But you dont even look at them, right? But once you got the G29, you started looking at the Fanatec’s thinking, ‘the G29 could be better’...

(full salesman mode, even though im yet to touch the Fulcrum...)

Save some money, dont buy cheap, dont buy twice.

(Chris, 10% discount please 😂)

Edited October 22, 2020 by NathanS

[SergeyPe 92]

1 hour ago, NathanS said:

I believe the honeycomb doesn't solve any of these - ive not tried it.

Waiting patiently for my Fulcrum pre-order to materialize (well, it's easier for me to wait as I'm already using an all-metal mechanism, 180 degrees roll, 6 inch pitch, HE-sensor DIY yoke😀), but also being an owner of the Honeycomb I can say that the latter one is quite good for the price. 180 degrees- yes, no detent- yes, smooth motion- yes. Short travel in pitch- true, but not necessarily a show-stopper, and I wouldn't compare it with Saitek- that crappy feeling is definitely not there. No HE sensors- true, but it doesn't make any difference until the pots start wearing out, and the ones in Honeycomb are definitely not bad. And of course it has a lot of switches😀. So it's a great mass-product while the Fulcrum is a great product for the demanding simmers and IMHO both are the clear winners in their price segments. Still I'm waiting for the Fulcrum...

[NathanS 8]

20 minutes ago, SergeyPe said:

Honeycomb ... I can say ... quite good for the price. 180 degrees- yes, no detent- yes, smooth motion- yes. Short travel in pitch- true, but not necessarily a show-stopper, .... No HE sensors- true, but it doesn't make any difference until the pots start wearing out.

Thanks, good perspective.

Perhaps i over dramatised, i definitely had great use out of all my saitek parts (yoke,throttles,panels).

I would only add the effect of warn pots was not really noticeable to me until after i tried a HE joystick. Even then, it was easily not noticeable if you were not that sensitive (i mean, a warn pot by any other name is a ‘gust’ 😋). I expect most people would only notice in a side by side comparison. I’ll stress that for me, HE sensors are a minimum requirement.

As for all things in life, only buy what you can afford!  I guess the price points of these 3 products are perhaps set quite well.

[SergeyPe 92]

8 minutes ago, NathanS said:

I would only add the effect of warn pots was not really noticeable to me until after i tried a HE joystick.

Well, Saitek/ Logitech are "famous" for using crappy pots. On the other hand, we have a Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 joystick, where CTS pots with 1 million rated cycles are used, and while these joysticks are being heavily used by many happy owners for about 20 years now, I haven't seen too many complaints about the pots wearing out. So the common prejudice against pots is to a big extent based on the experience with Saitek (and similar) gear. Don't get me wrong, I'm using the HE sensors in all my DIY simulation gear, but the maximum that I'll do with Honeycomb is replacing the stock pots with better long-life ones from Bourns and TT Electronics (100K and 1M cycles) as it will not require any additional mechanical work; and still I have a nagging feeling that it will be an overkill...

And of course HE sensors are a safe bet.

[109Sqn 1,551]

7 hours ago, NathanS said:

@109Sqn I couldn't be more passionate about how the Fulcrum design aims to fix all the problems of the entry level yokes.

I’ve recommended the T1600M joystick over the saitek (/honeycomb) yokes. 

if there was a cheaper, plastic Fulcrum that still solved these issues, i’d probably get it.

But, like the car wheels you mention - there’s plenty cheaper than the G29. But you dont even look at them, right? But once you got the G29, you started looking at the Fanatec’s thinking, ‘the G29 could be better’...

Since my order for the Thrustmaster TCA Officer Pack Airbus Edition (just rolls of the tongue, doesn't it?😁 ) is supposedly due to arrive tomorrow, I'll be able to assess the quality of it at least. It should certainly be less jerky (more digital than analogue, making fine adjustments on landing much harder) than my Thrustmaster Top Gun Afterburner Force Feedback (they love those long names!) is in FSX. And at least that way I will have a throttle quadrant regardless of whatever Yoke I end up with.

I've thankfully managed to avoid too much wheel envy with the G29, despite it's construction faux pas. It's a good wheel, with just the tacky blue buttons letting the side down. Not that I'd turn down a free Fanatec!😄 I've actually done well with wheels, only being on my third one, even then only due to incompatibility with successive consoles. A cheap and cheerful Mad Catz (PS1) was followed by a Logitech Driving Force Pro (PS3) and now the G29 since Logitech didn't get the compatibility chip for PS4. And it's only the newest and priciest one which has broken on me!🙄

Once I've got some time in with the TM Airbus pack, I'll decide what I want out of my yoke, but the Fulcrum is really starting to appeal, even though my bank balance will hate me in the short term.

 

Really appreciating the discussion, by the way.👍

 

Edited October 22, 2020 by 109Sqn

[109Sqn 1,551]

Having just been messed about for a third time by Amazon:

As of 7am today, my order for the Thrustmaster Airbus Officer Pack was still showing as being delivered today. my nearest warehouse being 15 miles away. But at 9:30am I had the email:

Quote

Hello,

We're still trying to obtain the item(s) which you ordered on October 19 2020 in Order# XXXXXXXXXXX.

  "Thrustmaster TCA Officer Pack Airbus Edition (Quadrant, T.A.R.G.E.T Software, PC)"
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B086J6KWTZ

We’ll email you as soon as we have a delivery date, and we’re making every effort to ship your order as soon as possible. If you would prefer, you can cancel this order:

I have now put my name on the waiting list for a Fulcrum yoke. At least Chris is keeping his customers and prospective customers informed.

[Bill Pitman 0]

Chris & All,

I received my Fulcrum yoke (#9),before noon this past Wednesday.

All was good, and modifications were made to my computer desk to accommodate.

The only thing noteworthy.... there was a slight "wetness" of oil at the bottom front left area of the control box.

Can I assume this is from one of the bearing blocks inside the box?!

Also, should any kind of a dry lubricant be used on the yoke shaft for the linear bearing?

Thanks for the product.... top of the line yoke-Fulcrum, top of the line rudder pedals-MFG,

 

Bill Pitman

Milford,Pa.