What's up with the bizarre upgrade edition pricing?

[19dcavscout 39]

Traditionally with Game Pass, when purchasing the game through the marketplace they give you up to 20% off. You get to keep the game after. They advertise this on the Game Pass website. Looks like this is exactly what this is.

[madfred 5]

Well, I did "purchase" the Premuim Deluxe" version through the market place, after going back and forth for a day, trying to wrap my head around the $35 price difference. I must have read all there was to read numerous times, and nowhere did it show it was for GamePass members only.

Guess, will see in 3 weeks what happens, as that will be when I end my subscription.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[howevr 39]

In for a penny....

I see I've raised more question that answers. Lets see if I can do a better job by clarifying/commenting on members queries. And thank you Griphos for editing your original reply. No I do not work for MS/Xbox. Just another user with a different view to some.

So IMHO

Lets look at the 3 versions in the MP.
Deluxe gets you 5 additional aircraft and airports over the Standard version.
Premium gets you 5 additional aircraft and airports over the Standard version. You don't get the Deluxe stuff.
Premium Deluxe gets you 10 additional aircraft and 10 airports over the Standard version. So both the Deluxe and Premium add-ons.

If I buy the premium deluxe version all 3 version will show as owned as you have just paid for all the aircraft and airports listed in the 3 packages. They are yours to keep.
These bundles are in the MP to cater for users who only bought the Standard or Deluxe versions of MSFS and want to upgrade/get the additional add-ons available in the other versions. Of course Gamepass owners who have installed the Standard version can also purchase any add-on from the store. No add-on purchased at the store is lost as you have paid for them.

Gamepass
If I did not have gamepass and just purchased any of the 3 versions of MSFS for the full price then the version I paid for will be listed in the Microsoft Store under My library. Either as Installed or Ready to install. Select that item and in the dialog box that pops up it will clearly state "You own this game". On the RHS it will either say Launch if you have it already installed or Install if not already installed.
Anyone who purchased the game can verify this.

However, with Gamepass you are given a special digital license. Look under Installed and Open Digital Ownership. It clearly states "This product is installed. You can use Digital Ownership with Xbox Game Pass for PC or buy it to own"

You will also see an entry for MS Flight Simulator with the same comments.

This ownership is only valid while you are a gamepass subscriber the same as any other game you may have installed.
So yes you can call yourself an "Owner" of MSFS Standard edition as long as you keep your subscription active.

Be assured that if you cancel your Gamepass subscription you will lose access to that game and any other game in your library that you are "renting". That is how it works.

If you purchased an MSFS Upgrade or any other product in the MP while still a Gamepass subscriber the purchase will stay there. If your Gamepass expires you will need to buy at least the Standard version of MSFS in order to access those purchases.

The wording of the Bundles in the MP store has been interpreted differently by many users.
If I was looking for a cheap buy-in to the Premium Deluxe version it is easy to convince myself that the wording meant I get "everything" at a big discount over everyone else, why, because I'm a Gamepass subscriber. Even though I might be in my first month and had only paid $1.00. (I'm sure everyone who paid full price would not be happy if this were true).

On the other hand when I read the wording I took it to mean I was getting "everything" as in, all the aircraft and airports in the Standard edition and was being given an option to buy extras should I be interested. This Upgrade appears to be the only option for anyone interested in getting the content from those versions. The are called Upgrades for a reason. Sure the description could have been worded better but it wasn't.

I don't think anyone who purchased an Upgrade can show that "You own this game" without it still showing options to buy it.

To my mind unless I see that ownership clearly in my account then I do not own the product.

Cheers,

[madfred 5]

Well, I ended up contacting Microsoft support a few days ago to rest my mind.

What I was told matches what @howevr stated above.

If I cancel my Game Pass subscription, I will lose the access to the sim including Premium Deluxe. I will have to purchase at least the Standard version at $59.99. That would mean I would end up paying $59.99 for Standard PLUS the $84.99 I already paid for Premium Deluxe, which comes to a total of $144.98. A quick calculation....$144.98 - $119.99 = $24.99 that I paid more than when I just purchased Premium Deluxe right out.

Since I was already looking at getting Deluxe at $89.99, I filed a refund request a few days ago, and they refunded the $84.99 today (may take another 5 business days to be back in my account)

Once the Money is in the account, I will go ahead and purchase the Deluxe version, which covers my needs.

Then I can just cancel the Game Pass subscription.

End of story for me.

[wthomas33065 994]

That's a bit sad, but I already subscribe to game pass ultimate for my xbox one and plan to continue for the near future.  I'll simply keep an eye out in the MS store or Steam, and when it goes on sale, then I'll buy my standard edition.  According to what you've said, as long as I login to FS with my Microsoft account, my upgrade purchase should be on file.

 

[SirDan 471]

You know what I hate, going to the grocery store 2 for 1. I only want one but they always charge just a little more for one more. I mean come on sell me one for half the price as the two for one...

Edited August 28, 2020 by SirDan

[AntillesFlyer 58]

I've just decided to just buy it outright. I don't want the aggravation of finding out that I've made the wrong choice and having to chase up MS. Even if I got it at a discount from them the time and effort isn't worth the small discount I may have seen.  Just have to decide which package 🙂

 

[madfred 5]

On 8/27/2020 at 10:27 PM, AntillesFlyer said:

 Just have to decide which package 🙂

 

Going to purchase as well.

I just look at what deluxe and premium deluxe add, and think by myself: will I be flying these additional airplanes frequently, and depart or land at those additional airport on a regular basis?

In my case:                         Deluxe                              Premium Deluxe
The additional aircraft:       1 - NO                                  1 -  Maybe
                                           2 - NO                                  2 - NO
                                           3 - YES                                3 - NO
                                           4 - YES                                4 - NO
                                           5 - YES                                5 - NO

 

The additional airports:      1 -  YES                               1 - YES
                                           2 -  NO                                 2 -  NO
                                           3 -  NO                                 3 - MAYBE
                                           4 -  YES                               4 - MAYBE
                                           5 -  NO                                 5 - YES

I will take possible payware add-on replacements in consideration (KDEN by FlightBeam at $14.99 as an example)

What do you think I will be going with ???                  

[ark 1,290]

26 minutes ago, madfred said:

I just look at what deluxe and premium deluxe add, and think by myself: will I be flying these additional airplanes frequently, and depart or land at those additional airport on a regular basis?

And I suggest you ask "how good are those additional planes"? Based on some of the reports by simmers who know how those planes should perform, some, like the Citation Longitude, are presently not very good if somewhat realistic performance is of interest to you.

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/582860-longitude-what-the-hell/

Al

Edited August 30, 2020 by ark

[madfred 5]

24 minutes ago, ark said:

And I suggest you ask "how good are those additional planes"? Based on some of the reports by simmers who know how those planes should perform, some, like the Citation Longitude, are presently not very good if somewhat realistic performance is of interest to you.

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/582860-longitude-what-the-hell/

Al

That is not a bad suggestion, but that was already a denominator for me, lol. I'd rather pay for a good aircraft representation, as I will end up buying that in the end anyways, and then ignoring the default, as those defaults will never get to the level of "payware" quality add-on's 

Edited August 30, 2020 by madfred

[Griphos 138]

Report:

Well, this has been a week from Hell. 

On the basis of the reports above, and the fact that I didn't show any version of the game as owned by me in either the MS Store or the Xbox app, I contacted support again.  This time, during an hour of chatting, where I showed her the language in the Marketplace and the prior chat from support where I was promised, TWICE, that I'd own the game and no longer need to be subscribed to Game Pass, she finally said she understood the issue and was elevating it to her "Rangers" and they would get in touch with me within 24 hours. 

That did not happen. 

She also gave me an email to use to contact her directly.  I tried at 12 hours, and at 24 hours, and at 36 hours, and again at 48 hours, and then gave up, when I got no response.

Then I started calling.

I called (and was disconnected) over a half dozen times talking to at least 10 different people, all of whom were very sympathetic, and promised to call me back if disconnected, but who never did, and who all told me that they couldn't help me but would connect me to someone who could, who, when I actually got connected to someone and not just disconnected in the transfer, or connected to a recording which hung up on me after it played, ALL told me they couldn't help me and I needed to contact the people I'd just contacted who said they couldn't help me and tried to connect me to them.

Starting to feel like I'm trapped in a Camus novel at this point.

This chain of calls included one transfer to just a MS Windows person who categorically wouldn't help.  In fact, he played a cruel joke on me.  I was SO tired of repeating the whole story everytime I spoke to a new person, so he said he'd made detailed notes and gave me a case number (the third someone had given me), and that if I got disconnected, all I had to do was call back and give the person the case number and they would know everything and I wouldn't have to tell the story again.  He then connected me to a number that was the same voice recording that hangs up after.  So, very frustrated, I called right back and told the person the case number and they said that case number has been closed!  He opened it and gave it to me and then closed it right after he transferred me to a recording that would hang up on me!!!!!

So, I tried submitting a "request" (which is French for "ticket" I guess) on the MSFS site.  I explained everything and included transcripts of both chat support sessions, both where I was promised that I would own the full game after buying the bundle, and of the Marketplace language that clearly states buying the bundle will give me EVERYTHING in the Standard edition PLUS the 10 extra aircraft and 10 extra airports.  They responsed with some advice to restart the game and I would see the DLC I wasn't able to see before.  In other words, boilerplate language about SOME COMPLETELY OTHER PROBLEM I DON'T HAVE.  When I pointed this out and asked them to please review the material I submitted before responding to me, they went silent.  After a few hours, they told me that I don't own the game, that I just own the DLC.  I pointed out, AGAIN, that this is not what I was told BEFORE I BOUGHT IT, and which I had asked about PRECISELY TO AVOID making a mistake and only owning the DLC.

Again, silence.  I opened a new "request" to point out I was not getting any help in my original request and included all the material again.  This was IMMEDIATELY merged with the original.  So, someone is reading these right away, they're just not responding until they darned well feel like it.

Another day goes by and finally someone posts that they cannot help me.  They cannot give me a key to the base game (which, of course, they could if they wanted to live up to the their and their support personel promises), and that, if I'd like, they will transfer my issue to Billing so I can have the purchase cancelled. 

I reply that I am disappointed in their failure to give what was promised and purchased in good faith, but, yes, to give me a refund.

Hours again go by and I decide to just request the refund directly before I run out of time (there is a 14 day limit according to their website).  The next day I get a reply saying they will not refund on DLC, despite the fact that the page where you can request the refund CLEARLY STATES that the bundle I bought is still eligible for a refund.

Another LIE.

I have written in response to the MSFS "request" case telling them this and asking for them to expidite the refund as they promised to do.  We'll see, I guess.  It's been 18 hours with no response.

Oh, and the second chat person from a week ago just replied to me FINALLY and told me to contact MSFS (which I've already done with terrible results).

I will give them the rest of the day, and then will have Paypal reverse the charge. 

I can't believe I took the trouble to check with support BEFORE I made a purchase to ensure that I was buying what I thought I was buying, and to be told that I would indeed own the game, but then not only do I not own the game, but they won't live up to their promises and, apparently, won't give a refund even though they lied to me to get me to purchase the product!

What a MESS!!!

This is not a good way for them to start off.

I sincerely hope it doesn't wreck them.  But I also don't want folks to have to go through what I went through. 

Worst customer support ever!!

[pjs37 319]

The only mess is people who were here perpetuating this idea that the DLC upgrade would somehow include the base game at a $35 less then the game does outright simply because you paid $1 for game pass despite all common sense to the contrary.  CS Reps are notoriously unreliable sources of information and I am not surprised from the confusion given their lazy approach to using the exact same description text from the store which made people think somehow the upgrades included the base game despite the fact that you can only see the upgrades from the game which assumes you owned the game so yeah their bad but as posted several times most people really didn't think this would be a real thing.  The idea that as a result you should get it for free makes no sense but at least they refunded your costs over the confusion.

[Griphos 138]

Excuse me?!

What a load of tripe!

The language in the game says clearly EVERTHING PLUS.  This is not wishful thinking.  It's a clear promise.  But I reached out to an official representative of the company BEFORE buying to ensure what it CLEARLY SAID was truly the case.  So, according to you, I should just disregard the claim in the Marketplace and the promise of the official representative and believe my own whimsical interpretation because that's what makes sense to YOU!?!  And people on a FORUM posted they didn't THINK it would be a real thing?!?!?! 

Your argument is that official representatives of the company are notoriously unreliable and I should pay attention to the musings of forum strangers instead?!?!  Because they are famously reliable!?!?!

Yeah, I'm the problem! 

No, this situation is objectively a mess.  Hopefully, my report about the circus that is MSFS/MS/MSXbox support will help inform others in an actual, factual way, as opposed to idle speculation.

And I can't believe you're seriously saying that promising one thing and then not delivering it, and THEN NOT GIVING A REFUND even though your official representative misrepresented the product is okay?!?!

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by Griphos

[CJ1045 469]

Exactly Griphos, the advert in marketplace clearly says it includes the base game. Further Games Pass holders normally get a discount when they want to buy the game for keeps. I have taken a different approach to this and have a single on-going ticket raised via Zendesk to the MSFS 2020 support team on this very subject. Not got to the point yet they have confirm my ownership of the PremDelux Edition but I will keep pushing. For me it is all a little academic as I will always be continuing Game Pass to support my Xbox habit so will always have access to the whole game anyway but am pushing them to confirm my ownership even if I closed my Game Pass sub.

 

CJ

[Griphos 138]

Yeah, the Zendesk MSFS folks have definitely rejected my case, but have said they will ask for a refund.  We'll see.

Perhaps they will make a different decision in your case.