Truly hope the negativity doesnt kill the sim

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

Well if they didn't water mask every pool exactly right, I'm quitting forever...

 

[RudyB24 296]

At Steam the reviews currently are split in 1300 positive and 1000 negative.

The negative ones have little to do with the sim itself or with bugs ... it mainly boils down to download- and install issues and not being able to get the sim to run at all.

Also a big complaint is that download time counts as play time which makes a refund (possible at Steam when less than 10 hours on the counter) a discussion, unless Steam corrects this issue.

[ChaoticBeauty 6,692]

11 minutes ago, bean_sprout said:

Yee of little faith.

Best to temper expectations in order to avoid disappointment. After all, we did go through 14 years of extremely stagnant progress because the genre wasn't considered profitable enough for the only corporation that could provide a revolution.

1 hour ago, RobotRock said:

This literally day 1. How about let's wait a little bit to judge the launch as a whole, much less the impact it will have on FS2020's future.

Again, this is literally just day 1. Let's wait a little bit before declaring FS2020 dead and buried.

At no point did I declare the simulator dead and buried. I made it clear enough that the issues will eventually be fixed and the simulator will be much more usable soon. But it is undeniable that the launch was a huge mess compared to most other AAA releases and that several users, who were trying out the simulator out of curiosity or excitement over its visuals, will not be returning.

Edited August 18, 2020 by ChaoticBeauty

[Skywolf 992]

@Rob_Ainscough great post as usual.

MS/Asobo did fix 2 big issues that I pointed out and I know I can't say what I shared with them on here publicly (you can probably see it on our private alpha/beta archived forums).  I am glad everyone sees my fix/suggestion though.  Brings a smile on my face every time I boot up MSFS2020

Edited August 18, 2020 by Skywolf

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

 

37 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

1.  Install issues were presented to Asobo many months ago
Perhaps, but a lot of games start out with installer issues in the first month from Steam issues, not uncommon really, but whether they fix it or not I guess is the test. 

2.  Flight physics issues were pointed out many months ago ... what happened to inertia, ground handling is horrible, taxi up a hill and stick like glue?
I personally think some planes are better than others, and some bugs in ground handling are the least of my concerns, more concerned about how it flies and lands.

3.  Set Render Scaling to 150 and watch the FPS drop drastically, try 200 ... this is essentially operating the sim using SSAA which is a far better anti-aliasing method for removing "the jaggies" (edge blending) and this is a big deal for many users

Yah well, the fidelity of the graphics are amazing, and I don't really think it needs as perfect AA as other sims anyways, since the graphics are so much better. I am playing on 110" screen, and I don't see the AA being much of an issue, other than the bug where some clouds are fringing, and a few other graphical issues which are relatively minor. 

4.  Fly fast and low and what happens to your Photogrammetry buildings and trees ... they can't keep up, low resolution brownish blobs.

I'm only on an RTX 2060, and I am not getting this issue, some blur sure, but not unacceptably so. Would you rather go back to waiting 20 seconds for a Photoreal tile to load up, or get an OOM whenever flying over a busy area (ok so mostly fixed in P3D, but FSX....). Have not tried flying low over 500kts though yet.

5.  Trees batch load in dense locations just like they do in FSX/P3D
No way is the autogen between P3D and FSX and this even comparable, it does not load anything like FSX or P3D that I've seen. I cannot say that it always holds true everywhere, there are some glitchy areas for sure. Autogen is smoother than XP11, and that is saying a lot.

6.  Cockpit reflections at night are overdone and a pixelated grain

Bah, don't care much about reflections, but I do see how this could be an eye sore (haven't flown much at night yet).

7.  Object density out in further distances is much lower than P3D/XP, big gaps of no buildings or trees
Compromise due to high fidelity, don't notice it much in real flying. Would rather see better looking buildings than extra square blobs at higher density miles away.

8.  Sat imagery is low resolution even more so with distant mountains/hills, the LOD radius of other sims is considerably better

HUH?
Some areas are going to be better than others, looks fairly sharp, but it's likely compressed, but Seattle is crazy sharp. I am not sure what you mean since no other sim includes any good sat imagery by default, the other sims have even LOWER res sat imagery. The stuff in here appears to be a mix of about 6-30 cm downscaled to about 50-60cm, and then some maybe a bit worse that is heavily processed (that still looks better than most unprocessed 1.2m we had in other sims). Orbx True Earth Washington doesn't even come close to this, and that was probably the best (well Orbx TE Great Britain in some ways), but neither of them look near this good (especially given how much better the trees are in FS-2020).

9.  Icing is a joke, frosty the snowman and all that happens is the aircraft loses engine power and hence loses some altitude?
Oh well, I haven't tried this yet, everything cannot be perfect.

10.  Clouds look horrible when close and start to gradient and again have a grainy pixelation about them, cloud structures are very unrealistic (dramatic but not realistic)
A few issues with clouds, yah, hoping they'll fix it.

11.  Road overpasses are often solid
Really don't care.

12.  AI cars drive over buildings (same issues we already have)
Waste of resources to fix right now, more important to fix other stuff first.

13.   Many issues I haven't touched in regards to aircraft systems

I'll give you this one, but I'm hoping third party devs improve on this.

 

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by SceneryFX

[atlflyer 138]

Well I had an enjoyable day flying all over the place! Orange county, San Diego, Palm Springs, Innsbruck,  London, st barts...what a blast.

 

Looking forward to fixes coming in the game soon!! Aside from all the major bugs, my biggest gripe is the caching of more scenery once you hit the end of the last cache...the 20 to 25 fps you get for 20 seconds or so until it all gets cached....ah well.

[decker89 110]

2 hours ago, SceneryFX said:

Only 2 main complaints I guess would be the twitchiness

100% that is your controllers. I had the same issue during the alpha phase and it only went away when I got a decent controller. I had to retire my Logitech, just didnt have the fidelity.

[strider1 575]

1 hour ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

 

You forgot #14: Photogrammetry block trees morphing into autogen trees almost underneath the simming plane. And as you pan your view behind they morph back into stone blobs 🤣  The simple solution is turn off the Photogrammetry but the hit on fps is horrendous! Surely that has to be bug?

The sim shines for bush flying where there is good data.

Since I am on roll might as well add #15: Unable to load Procedures on the GPS when on a VFR flight in Socal. Another bug I assume.

Edited August 19, 2020 by strider1

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

13 minutes ago, decker89 said:

100% that is your controllers. I had the same issue during the alpha phase and it only went away when I got a decent controller. I had to retire my Logitech, just didnt have the fidelity.

I'll buy a different controller and look into it, the problem I have is I am on a recliner so I cannot really use a super heavy one. I use a projector and I cannot setup a true desk/cockpit so easily in the HT room. I could I suppose, but I prefer the recliner for some reason.

I am having fun as well, getting a bit of constant excessive drift when not using auto-pilot though.

Regarding earlier comments about Ortho
I think they struck exactly the correct balance on the quality of the orthoimagery. To be fair to the other guy, I too had a little bit of "I've seen sharper mountains in the distance" at first, but think about it, it's not fair to compare it to a 30cm download someone did in Ortho4XP that takes hours to download one small section of a map to a live stream. Plus think of the HD space to get true uncompressed 30cm, that would be ridiculous. Some of the mountains in the distance do look really sharp, especially if flying some place with fewer trees and then the mountains render a bit sharper usually (if the ortho-quality is good for a particular area). Again, I think they nailed the balance on the ortho overall for streaming without us having to wait days for a download.

Edited August 19, 2020 by SceneryFX

[decker89 110]

2 hours ago, bean_sprout said:

 

The big question is whether MS will abandon the franchise in the near future.  So the big question in my mind is do we trust Microsoft to kill off the franchise again.  

Personally I doubt it so I'm remaining largely positive today.

Cheers

bs

I think the main difference here and why Microsoft won't abandon this sim is because they now have a way of profiting off the addons. I hope the die hard sim community uses the built in marketplace because it's that ongoing revenue that will keep this sim around for the long haul.

MSFS is unique in that that the add-on market will probably be the strongest of any of their games. What other games will they be selling $100 addons like PMDG? I hope MSFS gets their fair share of this and I hope this is what leads the franchise to being Microsoft's most successfull game, at least in the PC world.

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

Only Star Citizen I guess would compare, but I hope it doesn't become like that...
Anyone want to donate $200 for an upgraded trim on a glove compartment?

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by SceneryFX

[Mr. Hatty 38]

If I may preface, I want the sim to succeed. With such graphic potential its going to court casual simmers and VFR enthusiasts alike. In that respect I hope the sim succeeds.

That being said, 90% of the issues that exist as is were in both the alpha and beta builds, and all subjects were talked around or completely ignored by the dev team. In the last Q/A before release, they addressed issues with weather with the following quote. "Its in the backlog". When I heard this it immediately sent up a red flag. Sure enough upon release, the build feels and behaves exactly the same as the beta.

The late dev cycle of this game to me reeks of "rushed to release". To the game's credit it is absolutely beautiful (when its working 100% graphically) but it feels hollow with how many other issues trouble it. Be it the borked release, download speeds, installation errors, physics, graphical issues, weather issues, the list goes on.

Personally the product we received is unacceptable and the entire MSFS team has some serious explaining to do.

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

Well there are two paths it can go, we just have to hope for the best and we know that sometimes they do wait until after the release to fix the bugs. A lot of these issues can potentially be fixed by third-party developers, that is the good thing.

Here is a screenshot from Darrington Municipal, amazing this is streamed in real-time. Just shows some mountains look great, just depends, that's just the way ortho has always been.

 

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by SceneryFX

[fogboundturtle 2,708]

Call me surprised about Rob have a laundry list of things he doesn't like about MSFS....

Like usual, AVSIM only sees the negative of everything instead of looking at the positive and the essential. Rob made is sounds like P3D is the greatest sim ever. Yet LM hasn't fix CYVR taxi graphic glitch since May.  I think with all the flaws the game has, at least we have a developer that is willing to fix things and listesn. And before Rob comes over and mention , we told Asobo months ago about this and that, Asobo works on a priorities list. They do listen. Some things will be fix later than others. You just have to live with that.  We are judging a game that just launch officially 2 days ago and we are trying to judging like it's been on the market for years.   It will take time and some of you just need to go back to P3D and XP11 if you can't live with the issue the sim has right now for a certain period of time. 

[Jetman67 517]

2 minutes ago, fogboundturtle said:

Call me surprised about Rob have a laundry list of things he doesn't like about MSFS....

Like usual, AVSIM only sees the negative of everything instead of looking at the positive and the essential. Rob made is sounds like P3D is the greatest sim ever. Yet LM hasn't fix CYVR taxi graphic glitch since May.  I think with all the flaws the game has, at least we have a developer that is willing to fix things and listesn. And before Rob comes over and mention , we told Asobo months ago about this and that, Asobo works on a priorities list. They do listen. Some things will be fix later than others. You just have to live with that.  We are judging a game that just launch officially 2 days ago and we are trying to judging like it's been on the market for years.   It will take time and some of you just need to go back to P3D and XP11 if you can't live with the issue the sim has right now for a certain period of time. 

Good post agree with all of this