This release is the epitome of the gaming industry

[pmb 5,137]

On 8/19/2020 at 6:17 AM, reignman40 said:

I have trust Asobo will keep going strong and get it where they want.

All these expectations are based on the fact that Asobo will go on working on the sim with  ~200 devs after release. I don't know the Asobo-MS-contract but can well imagine part of the staff will be laid off after release. As a result, fixing/adding things will take much more time than during active initial development.

I may be (and hope to be) wrong, though.

Kind regards, Michael

[viz 139]

38 minutes ago, pmb said:

I don't know the Asobo-MS-contract but can well imagine part of the staff will be laid off after release. As a result, fixing/adding things will take much more time than during active initial development.

Asobo are actually hiring 😉 

https://www.asobostudio.com/careers

[pmb 5,137]

2 minutes ago, viz said:

Asobo are actually hiring 😉 

https://www.asobostudio.com/careers

Speechless. But it's certainly a good sign.

Kind regards, Michael

[langly 129]

OP is spot on but the white knights here will try to drown him out. I've never seen such a cult-like following for a company like this other than Apple, where a product this unfinished and bad is released and they defend it to the end.

I really, really couldn't care any less about finding my house. It was kind of neat the first time, but I'm not flying over it anymore. That isn't something to even advertise... I could hop on Google Earth and do it at any time. The weather is nice, not perfect, but better than what we've had. There are good things to build on, but to sit here and kid yourself about this being the best simulator on the market, or even one of the best games ever, is a joke.

Edited August 28, 2020 by langly

[Dirtysouth09 35]

Like I have said in many other posts.  Either fish or cut bait.  There is a better term but inappropriate for this forum.  I won’t use that saying.  Seriously people. Guess what.  There is p3dv4 or 5. Great sims.  There is also xplane 11.  Another great sim.  Stop the complaining.  There has been way too much hype over this sim.  No wonder there are all these toxic posts.  You all have free will.  Use it and go fly what makes you happy and stop complaining .  If you want to stay with msfs (like me) maybe be part of the solution instead of the problem.  All these toxic posts make me hate this space.  It’s crazy.  I have been simming for over 20 years.  There is a ton of potential here.  Most of you wanted the next best sim.  This one shows promise.  My guess is that no matter what a developer does it will not be good enough.  I am however invested in the success of this sim.  I can’t wait for the future.

[PDillon86 11]

2 hours ago, pmb said:

All these expectations are based on the fact that Asobo will go on working on the sim with  ~200 devs after release. I don't know the Asobo-MS-contract but can well imagine part of the staff will be laid off after release. As a result, fixing/adding things will take much more time than during active initial development.

I may be (and hope to be) wrong, though.

Kind regards, Michael

You are definitely wrong. If Asobo doesn't end up fixing it all enthusiasts grouped with third party modders and dev's will finish the job for them. 

[LHookins 3,103]

5 minutes ago, Dirtysouth09 said:

All these toxic posts make me hate this space.

"I read so much about how awful MSFS was that I finally had to give up reading." 😄 

Hook

[Ron Attwood 3,464]

12 minutes ago, LHookins said:

"I read so much about how awful MSFS was that I finally had to give up reading." 😄 

Hook

I like to think I gave up reading too. But I'm like a moth drawn to a flame. I'm also desperately trying to find all the things that are wrong with it. OK, one or two bits need ironing out but meh.

 

[Mike T 208]

I think that the saying: "those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it" applies here. And Microsoft knows it.

14 years ago FSX was ambitious for its time and had a lot of promises and screenshots as it was billed as the crown jewel for Microsoft's DX10 platform under Windows Vista. Well, the rest is history. It got two minor patches and it was subsequently abandoned. Eventually it wasn't Microsoft, it was Lockheed Martin who delivered DX10, a 64-bit architecture, and completed the game to give us what we have today in the form of P3D

THEN, 8 Years go we had MS Flight this time with a lot of promises of expanding the appeal of flight simulation to the masses and a commitment for the long term. The screenshots were spectacular - and Flight never made it a whole year before it was abandoned.

It seems that everyone has forgotten that the LAST TWO RELEASES of a flight simulator from Microsoft were released unfinished - and then subsequently abandoned. All facts here folks - whether it upsets you or not.

And now we have Flight Simulator 2020 which was just a spectacular - yet incomplete alpha only 6 short weeks ago. It then went into an incomplete beta 4 short weeks ago.  The beta was SO incomplete that it was rumored that the beta version being tested couldn't POSSIBLY be the version that would be released and there was a magical unicorn hidden beta version that was being held back especially to be released in all its glory on August 18th. Then, 2 Weeks ago, those in the know, know that there was indeed no magical unicorn version and you'd better believe the testers are still under NDA for a good reason.

Here's the rub. I keep seeing that "FSX wasn't released fully working, what are you complaining about?" Well - FSX was released 14 years ago. That's like the car dealer telling me that it's okay that my new Telsa doesn't work properly because neither did the Ford Pinto when it was released in 1978. Who in their right mind thinks that way???

At the end of the day, I do agree that complaining won't change anything. You might as well enjoy what you have - or get your money back. You see, Microsoft knows this community better than it knows itself. Microsoft knows that no matter in what state of mess it is releases Flight Simulator there will be plenty who will declare that their broken precious simulator is the best thing ever and will shout down anyone who rightly declares that the emperor has no clothes. And that's smart on behalf of Microsoft. Why spend another year with no income paying for Asobo to finish Flight Simulator when they can release it now, get millions in income, and simmers will clog the forums declaring that they would have paid twice as much to get it now! If I were the CEO of Microsoft that's exactly what I would do. There are no consequences, so why not do it?

I saw a post on the Flight Simulator forums recently that said, and I quote "we don't deserve this flight simulator." Actually, I submit that the poster was wrong - this is EXACTLY Flight Simulator we deserve. Until we demand better we won't get better. Not from Microsoft, or Blizzard, or Epic, or EA, or anyone else.

As for me. I'm not complaining, just stating facts. But since we're living in a time of alternate facts, feel free to shout me down or make up your own - it's the time in which we live I guess. I'm actually only upset with myself for deleting P3D and all my addons. Now I've got to spend the next week reinstalling everything LOL!

Flight Simulator or not, I hope everyone is safe and healthy. At the end of the day, it's not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things 🙂 

Mike T.

 

 

 

 

 

[Steve Dra 7,588]

On 8/19/2020 at 4:26 AM, LHookins said:

And that is exactly the way it should be.  But you'd be surprised at how many previously exclusive airline simmers were flying GA and loving it.  MSFS is what it took to get them out of the airliner cockpits.

Hook

<Raises hand.>

And being a texture artist (ok...just a fancy name for an aircraft painter), I'm a very visual person.  Reading all the text in this post makes me yearn to just slap a screenshot that, to me, speaks more relevance than I could to contribute to this thread with words.

Yep, I'm spamming this screenshot just about everywhere...but i don't care....to me, this pretty much sums up why I'm enjoying this release.

[Ron Attwood 3,464]

An excellent post Mike. Couldn't have said it better myself. As I'm three sheets to the wind I'm having a tough time saying anything. *hic*

[VFXSimmer 1,310]

57 minutes ago, Mike T said:

At the end of the day, I do agree that complaining won't change anything. You might as well enjoy what you have - or get your money back. You see, Microsoft knows this community better than it knows itself. Microsoft knows that no matter in what state of mess it is releases Flight Simulator there will be plenty who will declare that their broken precious simulator is the best thing ever and will shout down anyone who rightly declares that the emperor has no clothes. And that's smart on behalf of Microsoft. Why spend another year with no income paying for Asobo to finish Flight Simulator when they can release it now, get millions in income, and simmers will clog the forums declaring that they would have paid twice as much to get it now! If I were the CEO of Microsoft that's exactly what I would do. There are no consequences, so why not do it?

 

Man... take a breath...

I've read a bunch of these posts and I really don't think we're using the same program.  This thing is amazing.

I've also read the lists of things making people hyperventilate and they seem pretty trivial to me.  Heck we're a week into it and we already have a community buzzing with activity submitting scenery, a zibo-like mod in development... the "facts" as I see are a ton of people who really like this thing.  I dunno, but I kinda suspect you're in the minority here.

You're acting like we spent $10,000 on this thing .. even the deluxe version is less than the cost of a nice dinner.  If planes literally didnt leave the ground, or scenery flat out didnt load, or if crashes were overwhelmingly preventing people from playing you might have an argument, but I hardly think a few bugs in a make-believe autopilot should conjure up some Machiavellian corporate ne're-do-well sitting in his/her ivory tower counting their misbegotten cash.

I dont really have an issue with people calling out bugs and issues (that way things get ID'd and fixed), but calling this whole thing a treastise on "the state of the gaming industry" is pretty extreme hyperbole.  I'm not quite sure which "emperor isnt wearing clothes".. the accused, or the accuser.

Edited August 29, 2020 by VFXSimmer

[Chock 17,769]

On 8/19/2020 at 5:12 AM, maniamcool said:

FS2020 was released in a much more broken state than any of it's predecessors, let's make that clear. 

Whilst this is certainly true, the fact remains that there are nevertheless very many things about the new flight simulator, which make it very much better than a lot of other flight sims, in many respects.

In the new MS sim, I've just flown my little Cessna 182 from down south in the UK, up to Liverpool, IFR in the dark, in fairly poor weather. That's an aircraft which should have made the trip no problem whatsoever, but in fact it was icing up in clouds, in darkness, forcing me to ask ATC for lower to get out of the ice which was beginning to affect performance. I had tried to get above it, but could not. It was only when I got down below 9,000 feet that I started seeing breaks in the clouds, but even then I still had traces of ice on the windows and airframe which were not budging as they had built up a lot as I tried to get above the weather.

When I got to Liverpool and descended for the circuit, it was clear that the ice was melting as I got below about 4,000, but it only really went completely off the windows when I was on short finals, and prior to this it made me acutely aware that it would be prudent to keep the speed on in the circuit whilst being careful to limit the bank angle, and watch that the descent rate did not increase the angle of attack too much, especially in a descending turn, where it was necessary to be very well coordinated. About the only thing the sim did not replicate, was the melting ice loosening off and sliding on the glass, like it actually does in real life as it melts.

Normally I'll only really give a cr@p about that kind of need to fly carefully in a real aeroplane in such conditions, because every other flight sim doesn't really get affected by that kind of thing. However, in this sim, when I pulled up on the ramp, shut the engine off, opened the door and moved the viewpoint out through the door to replicate climbing out and looked at the exterior, I had the feeling you get in real life after such a flight. You know the one: Where you don't exactly feel like you've cheated death, but you are very aware that it was doing the right things whilst you were in the air which meant this was so. 

Whilst the way that icing is implemented in the sim is by no means perfect, the fact that it is in there, and will doubtless be improved and built upon by TPDs, is just one element of the new flight simulator which is way better than any other PC flight sim has ever managed.

None of this means the software is without its problems, and these need to be fixed, so I will not be the one to blindly blow sunshine up Asobo and MS's collective @rse and say they've done everything perfectly. But the the ambition and scope of the new sim, frankly, make the issues it has at present, if perhaps not pale into insignificance, then at least be things I am able to forgive. This in the knowledge that these things will be fixed and come up to par with all the good stuff, of which the above is just one example.

It's very easy to be critical of projects such as the new MS sim, but one thing we have to be aware of, is that 2020 has been one of the most bizarre and difficult years ever, for pretty much everyone. It started of with Australia having massive fires to the point where it was getting scary from an environmental standpoint, and of course everyone was concerned. Little did we know that this was just the appetiser for a year unlike any other. Within a few months, literally millions of us would be losing our jobs, whilst travel, social contact and working practices would be hugely limited in every country. As if this wasn't bad enough, there would be at least 24.5 million people infected, with almost a million people dying as a result of that.

It's against this backdrop that Asobo and MS have managed to get the simulator out of the door, albeit with some issues, and within the time frame they promised. We know for a fact this was affected by the problems the aviation industry in particular has suffered, of which I and many others who worked in it are acutely aware. The fact that Asobo even managed to produce the thing at all under such duress, means I for one am prepared to cut them a little slack.

After all, nobody twisted my arm up my back to buy the sim, and as noted, even in spite of its issues, I do still think it has so much merit that I'm easily prepared to forgive it in the short term whilst I await its fixes. If in the longer term it still has issues which have not been addressed, I might change my viewpoint of course, but at present, I think in truth it is a pretty amazing achievement given the circumstances.

Circumstances which are in no way the epitome of anything at all, since this year has been completely uncharted territory for every one of us.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Chock

[pjs37 319]

On 8/19/2020 at 5:15 AM, elgreco111 said:

<SNIP> My conclusion to all the writing in this forum is: Well done for VFR flying and bush pilots, new simulator/game with issues so many new games have at first release. Will sure be fixed in the future.🤔<SNIP>

It makes sense to me given their overall market.  GA VFR flight is what a new pilot is going to do first.  Fly from their nearest airport following the roads they know to get to their house etc.  Maybe they get bored and fly a 747 out of a tiny airport for fun because you can.  I think it is easy to conclude it was released prior to it being ready a larger beta test would have been nice to find out like the install issues but I suspect they either wanted to meet some internal financial quota or get something ready and out for the school year for tying into the education market?  Who knows.  But yeah overall summed up nicely.

[pmanhart 176]

The single biggest sin for me is the complete and utter lack of documentation.