Why the ground is blurry in DX10, and in DX9 not?

[Luis Hernandez 570]

Hello everyone. After some time adjusting settings in my FSX and laptop (see specs in signature), I was able to get a satisfactory setup, with framerate locked in FSX-SE at 32 FPS in DX9. In DX10 with this FPS lock, FSX feels smoother, but I find some annoying blurry ground textures:

This is in FSX-SE, DX10:

As you may see in the background, the city textures in the background are blurry. However, this does not happen in DX9:

Can you see that these textures are crisper? All these tests are taking off from KMIA runway 9 and then, after reaching 3000 ft, turn right. I've tried changing LOD Radius (4.5 and 6.5), Texture size (1024, 2048 or even 4096), AF values (16x or 8x in Nvidia Inspector), mesh complexities (50 or 100), AA values in DX10 Fixer (2x, 4x, 8x), DX LOD Bias (-1.000 or clamped 0.0), Bufferpools, Affinity Masks (with or without), etc, but simply nothing works. I've followed both the DX10 How-to guide, and the Avsim FSX setup guide, but I still get these blurry textures. Does anybody know how to fix this?

For reference, please see below my CFG:

Spoiler

[GRAPHICS]
SHADER_CACHE_PRIMED_10=1693751040
SHADER_CACHE_PRIMED=1693751040
TEXTURE_MAX_LOAD=2048
NUM_LIGHTS=8
AIRCRAFT_SHADOWS=0
AIRCRAFT_REFLECTIONS=1
COCKPIT_HIGH_LOD=1
LANDING_LIGHTS=1
AC_SELF_SHADOW=0
EFFECTS_QUALITY=2
GROUND_SHADOWS=0
TEXTURE_QUALITY=3
IMAGE_QUALITY=0
See_Self=1
Text_Scroll=1
D3D10=1
ForceWindowedVsync=1
MultiSamplesPerPixel=4
MultiSampleQuality=0
[SOUND]
AmbientUIMusicVolume=-6.000000
PrimaryDevice={DEF00000-9C6D-47ED-AAF1-4DDA8F2B5C03}
VoiceDevice={DEF00002-9C6D-47ED-AAF1-4DDA8F2B5C03}
SOUND=1
SOUND_QUALITY=2
SOUND_LOD=1
UISound=1
AmbientUI=0
SOUND_FADER1=0.500000
SOUND_FADER2=0.500000
SOUND_FADER3=0.500000
SOUND_FADER4=-0.500000
AmbientUIMusic=FSX01
[Display]
ChangeTime=4.000000
TransitionTime=4.000000
ActiveWindowTitleTextColor=255,255,255
ActiveWindowTitleBackGroundColor=0,28,140,64
NonActiveWindowTitleTextColor=255,255,255
NonActiveWindowTitleBackGroundColor=24,33,87,64
InfoUpperRightTextColor=255,0,0
InfoUpperRightBackGroundColor=0,0,0,0
InfoLowerLeftTextColor=255,255,255
InfoLowerLeftBackGroundColor=255,0,0,128
InfoLowerRightTextColor=255,255,255
InfoLowerRightBackGroundColor=255,0,0,128
InfoBrakesEnable=False
InfoParkingBrakesEnable=False
InfoPauseEnable=True
InfoSlewEnable=True
InfoStallEnable=True
InfoOverspeedEnable=True
BLOOM_EFFECTS=0
SKINNED_ANIMATIONS=1
TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=160
UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=32
WideViewAspect=True
ForceVCShadowMap=1
[Main]
FIBER_FRAME_TIME_FRACTION=0.10
User Objects=Airplane, Helicopter
SimObjectPaths.0=SimObjects\Airplanes
SimObjectPaths.1=SimObjects\Rotorcraft
SimObjectPaths.2=SimObjects\GroundVehicles
SimObjectPaths.3=SimObjects\Boats
SimObjectPaths.4=SimObjects\Animals
SimObjectPaths.5=SimObjects\Misc
SimObjectPaths.6=SimObjects\Traffic
ProcSpeed=5737
PerfBucket=7
Maximized=2
HideMenuNormal=1
HideMenuFullscreen=1
DisablePreload=1
Location=0,0,1920,1080,\\.\DISPLAY2
[PANELS]
IMAGE_QUALITY=1
QUICKTIPS=0
PANEL_OPACITY=100
PANEL_MASKING=1
PANEL_STRETCHING=1
UNITS_OF_MEASURE=1
DEFAULT_VIEW=1
[Weather]
WindshieldPrecipitationEffects=1
MinGustTime=10
MaxGustTime=500
MinGustRampSpeed=1
MaxGustRampSpeed=200
MinVarTime=5
MaxVarTime=50
MinVarRampSpeed=10
MaxVarRampSpeed=75
TurbulenceScale=1.000000
WeatherServerAddress=fs2k.zone.com
WeatherServerPort=80
WeatherGraphDataInDialog=0
AdjustForMagVarInDialog=1
DynamicWeather=0
DownloadWindsAloft=0
DisableTurbulence=0
CLOUD_DRAW_DISTANCE=3
DETAILED_CLOUDS=1
CLOUD_COVERAGE_DENSITY=6
THERMAL_VISUALS=0
[DISPLAY.Device.NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050.0]
Mode=1920x1080x32
[AccelerationPack]
ControlsFirstRun=0
HomePageFirstRun=0
[CONTROLS]
Controls_Default=Standard
Controls_Current=Standard
KBDAIL=64
KBDELEV=64
KBDRUD=64
[TextInfo.1]
Latitude=1,1
Longitude=1,2
Altitude=1,3
Heading=1,4
AirSpeed=1,5
WindDirectionAndSpeed=1,6
[TextInfo.2]
FrameRate=1,1
AverageFramerate=1,2
LockedFrameRate=1,3
GForce=1,4
FuelPercentage=1,5
[TextInfo.3]
Latitude=1,1
Longitude=1,2
Altitude=1,3
Heading=1,4
AirSpeed=1,5
WindDirectionAndSpeed=1,6
FrameRate=2,1
AverageFramerate=2,2
LockedFrameRate=2,3
GForce=2,4
FuelPercentage=2,5
[SlewTextInfo.1]
Latitude=1,1
Longitude=1,2
Altitude=1,3
Heading=1,4
AirSpeed=1,5
[SlewTextInfo.2]
FrameRate=1,1
LockedFrameRate=1,2
[SlewTextInfo.3]
Latitude=1,1
Longitude=1,2
Altitude=1,3
Heading=1,4
AirSpeed=1,5
FrameRate=2,1
LockedFrameRate=2,2
[DynamicHeadMovement]
LonAccelOnHeadLon=0.00000
LonAccelOnHeadPitch=0.0000
RollAccelOnHeadLat=0.000000
YawAccelOnHeadLat=0.000000
RollAccelOnHeadRoll=0.000000
MaxHeadAngle=0.000000
MaxHeadOffset=0.000000
HeadMoveTimeConstant=0.000000
[VirtualCopilot]
VirtualCopilotActive=0
[USERINTERFACE]
PageID=1
SHOW_MISSION_CAPTIONS=0
PAUSE_ON_LOST_FOCUS=0
PROMPT_ON_EXIT=1
SITUATION=D:\Luis\Documents\Flight Simulator X Files\FS9 default flight
Map_Orientation=2
OpenATCOnCreate=0
DisplayFuelAsWeight=1
ShowAllACPaintSchemes=1
SelectAircraftManufacturer=All
SelectAircraftPublisher=All
SelectAircraftType=All
[ATC]
ShowATCText=0
COMM_MSG_NONE_COLOR=FFFFFFFF
COMM_MSG_ATC_USER_COLOR=FFB6FFB6
COMM_MSG_USER_ATC_COLOR=FFFFD21B
COMM_MSG_ATC_AI_COLOR=FF00FF00
COMM_MSG_AI_ATC_COLOR=FFFF7840
AutoOpenAirTrafficWindow=0
UsePilotVoice=0
PilotVoice=0
[PointOfInterestSystem]
CycleSetting=0
[SCENERY]
LENSFLARE=0
DAWN_DUSK_SMOOTHING=1
IMAGE_COMPLEXITY=4
ShowMissingTextureAlert=0
[TrafficManager]
AirlineDensity=20
GADensity=20
FreewayDensity=0
ShipsAndFerriesDensity=0
LeisureBoatsDensity=0
IFROnly=0
AIRPORT_SCENERY_DENSITY=1
[TERRAIN]
LOD_RADIUS=4.500000
MESH_COMPLEXITY=50
MESH_RESOLUTION=23
TEXTURE_RESOLUTION=29
AUTOGEN_DENSITY=2
DETAIL_TEXTURE=1
WATER_EFFECTS=3
[AContain]
ShowLabels=0
ShowUserLabel=0
ShowLabelManufacturer=1
ShowLabelModel=1
ShowLabelTailNumber=0
ShowLabelDistance=1
ShowLabelAltitude=1
ShowLabelAirline=0
ShowLabelAirlineAndFlightNumber=0
ShowLabelFlightPlan=0
ShowLabelContainerId=0
ShowLabelAirspeed=0
ShowLabelHeading=0
LabelDelay=1000
LabelColor=FFFF0000
[INTERNATIONAL]
ASLAT=2
ASLON=0
MEASURE=1
[REALISM]
PFactor=0.750000
Torque=0.750000
GyroEffect=1.000000
CrashTolerance=1.000000
General=1.000000
UnlimitedFuel=False
AllowEngineDamage=False
TrueAirspeed=False
AutoCoord=False
RealMixture=True
StressDamage=False
GEffect=False
ManualLights=False
GyroDrift=False
CrashWithDyn=False
CrashDetection=False
AutoTrim=False
[SIM]
SYSCLOCK=1
[STARTUP]
DEMO=0
SHOW_OPENING_SCREEN=1
STARTUP_DEMO=
LoadWindow=1
[FACILITIES]
COUNTRY=
STATE=
CITY=
GTL_BUTTON=1259
[Misc]
Com_Rate=7
[DISPLAY.Device.NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050.0.0]
Mode=1920x1080x32
TriLinear=0
Anisotropic=1
AntiAlias=1
[MULTIPLAYER]
condAccoutPassword=0
VoiceVolume=-1.000000
 

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Luis Hernandez
Spelling

[HighBypass 2,339]

I've no idea , but I do believe that there is a slight performance overhead with DX10 compared to DX9. However, what the DX10 Fixer adds to my enjoyment of FSX far outweighs any negative aspect. 

Ignoring some of the stuff in this thread which may only be for Win 7 it might be worth a read. I don't know if it will help or not, good luck! 🍻

https://forums.flightsimlabs.com/index.php?/topic/8785-dx9-versus-dx10/

[Luis Hernandez 570]

Thanks, Mark. I've read this thread. The funny thing is that the first reply is from someone who did the very thing I want to avoid: give up on DX10 and go back to DX9.

Anyway, I saw two or three things different between the OP's system and mine (apart from the OS). I tried playing with TextureMaxLoad, going unlocked in FSX and even setting TBM to 320 (instead of FSX-SE default 160). However nothing worked at all. No matter what I do, I'm getting the same result. Looks like my settings for AF are honored in DX9, but are being ignored in DX10. I mean, the pictures I posted look like the first photo in the Wikipedia page about AF! I'm puzzled 😢

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Luis Hernandez

[Brisafresca 58]

On 8/21/2020 at 11:57 PM, Luis Hernandez said:

Thanks, Mark. I've read this thread. The funny thing is that the first reply is from someone who did the very thing I want to avoid: give up on DX10 and go back to DX9.

Anyway, I saw two or three things different between the OP's system and mine (apart from the OS). I tried playing with TextureMaxLoad, going unlocked in FSX and even setting TBM to 320 (instead of FSX-SE default 160). However nothing worked at all. No matter what I do, I'm getting the same result. Looks like my settings for AF are honored in DX9, but are being ignored in DX10. I mean, the pictures I posted look like the first photo in the Wikipedia page about AF! I'm puzzled 😢

 

If you want to see very sharp ground textures, without blurries, I recommend the following:

1º Use a high FFTF value. The default is 0.33 and you should not use higher values. The higher this value is the faster the loading of textures into the simulator but, it can cause stuttering or lowering of fps, loss of performance.

[MAIN]

FIBER_FRAME_TIME_FRACTION=0.33

2º FSX uses by default a value of TextureMaxLoad=6, this line helps to prevent blurred textures, try to use a value of 12 or 30, (the values to use are multiples of 3: (3,6,9,12....) But it can cause stutters.

[DISPLAY]

TextureMaxLoad=30

3º I seem to remember that Sparse Grid Supersampling in Nvidia inspector causes blurred textures, instead of using SGSAA, use the new CFAS.

4º Use cabin view or exterior views from ''fixed cameras'', the ''exterior view and/or exploration'' allows blurries to be seen easily, with the others this does not happen.

5º Also playing with the zoom view helps.

 

keep in mind that with FSX you can not have everything, something must be sacrificed, must be consistent with the characteristics of your pc.

Regards

Brisafresca

 

 

[Luis Hernandez 570]

Thanks, Brisa. Regarding each of your points:

1) Already tried that. It didn't work.
2) Ditto.
3) I never use SGSS: too much load for my system, and all lighter AA modes for me are good enough.
4) Both of my pictures were taken in the same conditions regarding FSX settings (only AA was changed, because of DX9/10 limitations). Cameras and zoom values were the same for both pictures.
5) See #4.

Looks like, with my current system (a laptop with switchable graphics), I have no option but giving up on DX10. Maybe it's one of DX10's limitations that even the Fixer can't fix😞

[Luis Hernandez 570]

Well, looks like necroing but I'll give my feedback: I gave up with DX10. There must be something with Optimus and FSX that disables the AF in DX10. Went back to DX9, RTSS at Scanline X/2, and no issues unIess visit a big airport (EGLL/EDDF or bigger) using an uber-detailed plane (PMDG 777/Aerosoft A320). I hope the tweaking bug does not bite me again.

Edited September 2, 2020 by Luis Hernandez

[SteveFx 258]

On 9/2/2020 at 3:40 PM, Luis Hernandez said:

Well, looks like necroing but I'll give my feedback: I gave up with DX10. There must be something with Optimus and FSX that disables the AF in DX10. Went back to DX9, RTSS at Scanline X/2, and no issues unIess visit a big airport (EGLL/EDDF or bigger) using an uber-detailed plane (PMDG 777/Aerosoft A320). I hope the tweaking bug does not bite me again.

I have tried to reproduce this with supersampling off and can not.  The one difference that I am aware of is that the DX9 filtering produces a better result when there is a problem with no mipmaps being available.   

What ground textures are you using?  The city seems very detailed  could it be ortho and not mipmapped? 

Did you try turning on the fixer CFAS AA which is designed to improve the IQ when mipmaps are missing?

Edited September 5, 2020 by SteveFx

[Luis Hernandez 570]

Mipmaps not available? Now I'm more puzzled; I wasn't aware of this difference, Steve. I never used SGSS AA (I never cared), so I don't know if this has any effect.

What you see in my screenshots is just Orbx Global+Vector+openLC+Buildings HD (reduced to 1024x1024 with mipmaps) + Trees HD (same reduction and mips). And yes, I tried with or without CFAS AA. I can't see any influence of this on my issue. However, despite giving up, I haven't uninstalled the Fixer yet. If there's something else you want me to test, please let me know.

Edited September 5, 2020 by Luis Hernandez

[SteveFx 258]

Sorrry I cannot see anything wrong in your fsx,cfg although I am a little puzzed by the line TriLinear=0 against the GPU.   I would suggest removing that - normally you see the filter you have selected =1 and no mention of the ones you haven't selected.  I doubt it will fix it but it is a little odd.

I can think of only 3 reasons for blurriness

1) delays loading but these although annoying should eventually resolve

2) texture with no mipmaps but it seems that is not the issue from what you say.

3) something to do with filtering.

 

 

[Luis Hernandez 570]

On 9/5/2020 at 4:31 PM, SteveFx said:

I doubt it will fix it but it is a little odd.

I've just tried removing the TriLinear=0 lines everywhere in fsx.cfg. It didn't work.

The curious thing is that, after switching to DX10 in the Fixer, I find these lines were added to the CFG:

[DISPLAY.Device.Intel(R) UHD Graphics 630.0.0]
AntiAlias=1

Going back to DX9 did not erase it. Strange, but it might imply (as one of your possibilities say) there's something with the filtering with my GPU in DX10.

[SteveFx 258]

Yes that suggests that the fixer believes that you are using the Intel card.  There is actually a warning on the fixer purchase page about people reporting issues  with Optimus laptops using DX10 in FSX.  As i don't have access to one I cannot test it.

The entry in your FSX cfg for the Nvidia half looked ok 

[DISPLAY.Device.NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050.0.0]
Mode=1920x1080x32
TriLinear=0
Anisotropic=1
AntiAlias=1

You could try adding Anisotropic=1 to the UHD entry for DX10 - maybe for filtering it uses the first value it sees?

Edited September 7, 2020 by SteveFx

[Luis Hernandez 570]

On 9/7/2020 at 3:57 AM, SteveFx said:

You could try adding Anisotropic=1 to the UHD entry for DX10 - maybe for filtering it uses the first value it sees?

It didn't work either. However, the following looks to be my biggest FSX error ever:

On 9/5/2020 at 12:27 PM, Luis Hernandez said:

I never used SGSS AA (I never cared)

Instead of using CFAS, I tried the actual SGSS AA (according to the AA level I set through the Fixer), and voilà:

Looks like problem is solved. If my eyes don't deceive me, the terrain in the far background is as crisp as in DX9. So, after all my DX10 struggles (regarding both AF/blurriness and 1/2 refresh rate V-Sync ), this is what I've found for Optimus (using Windows 10 and windowed mode):
- In DX9, FSX far ground looks OK. In DX10, for preventing blurries, SGSS is required.
- Adaptative V-Sync does not work at all. Standard V-sync (60 Hz) works only in DX9, and only if forced via fsx.cfg .
- RTSS Scanline X/2 is a godsend.

If someone can crosscheck these findings, please let us know if you got the same results. In the meantime, I wanna thank Steve and everyone else who have replied in the threads I opened for these issues.

Edited September 9, 2020 by Luis Hernandez

[Luis Hernandez 570]

I tested again last night and this morning. It turns to be that one of my findings was wrong: it's not the lack of SGSS AA that causes my blurries, but CFAS enabled. If I keep both CFAS AA and SGSS AA off, I don´t get any blurries. So:

On 9/8/2020 at 10:52 PM, Luis Hernandez said:

- In DX9, FSX far ground looks OK. In DX10, for preventing blurries, SGSS is required far ground also looks OK with or without SGSS, until I enable CFAS. If I turn CFAS on, far ground turns blurry.

This is in my Optimus-equipped laptop. In common desktops, the results may be different.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Luis Hernandez
Poor grammar