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Sesquashtoo

The stutters, no matter how powerful your rig is..

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On 8/23/2020 at 9:28 PM, AnkH said:

And again the same story. And no, I am NOT going to limit my 144Hz monitor down to prehistoric Hz numbers. So far I am pretty happy to have almost no stutters compared to what I had at the beginning with FSX and P3D. 

It doesn't look bad on 36 fps (144/4) and Gsync on... (actually it doesn't matter if the refresh rate is a multiple of the framerate with Gsync on)

Of course if the hardware allows, higher framerates are better.

Edited by MrFuzzy

i9 10850K @ 5 GHz / 32 GB 3200 MHz CL16 / RTX 3090 / Acer Predator X34P G-Sync

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On 8/23/2020 at 9:59 PM, roi1862 said:

And If I got 165hz screen whats the solution? I pretty much got a smooth experience except that odd stutter every once in a while when flying some distance and also sometimes when panning around. I think its some data load bug.

Same here, I think it's not avoidable. 

However with 165 Hz refresh you could try to limit the framerate to 33 fps.


i9 10850K @ 5 GHz / 32 GB 3200 MHz CL16 / RTX 3090 / Acer Predator X34P G-Sync

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On 8/23/2020 at 6:57 PM, w6kd said:

If there's a MAIN THREAD issue (capitalized, underlined, AND italicized for extra-hypermanic emphasis), it's not apparent.  All 10 cores are plugging along at an average 25% core load.  GPU at 65-85% and around 9GB VRAM in use.

Discussing a "main thread",  then stating your average core load is a bit of a contradiction.  I, and others, do see one core whose utilisation is much higher than the rest.  You might want to recheck.

Edited by Hippo

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On 8/23/2020 at 6:24 PM, Sesquashtoo said:

The reason that so many people are frustrated with lousy FPS,  bad stutter..with state of the Art innards...is this:

(and even on my modest system) is that there definitely is a bug in the sim engine that has the MAIN THREAD pegged at overload.  If you have unlimited FPS (not locked down by an external app such as the nVidia Control App...,  you will indeed have stutter and if you run the internal FPS meter...it will show a constant RED  LIMITED BY THE MAIN THREAD.  This is an engine bug, that is not using (when there is no limiter) all your cores, equally. 

Now, I suggest you try this...go into your nVidia control app, and set the FPS lock to 30 FPS...for a reason...never mind that you might not want to run with that...this is an experiment---->and then set vsync to 1/2 Adaptive, press APPLY and then go fly.   Make sure you have the in house FPS meter running, and you will now see that any LIMITATION could be showing as the Main THREAD, the CPU, or ...the GPU.  But...I'll bet dollars to donuts, that your stutter...no matter how minimal or beefy your system is...will be gone. You will have smooth animation, even at a locked 30 FPS ceiling.  Try that...and see if YOUR FPS meter now shows any of three possible bottlenecks and not the RED MAIN THREAD..pegged solid.  Try that...and make your decisions on that basis.  I was getting near 50 FPS not locked down...and I had terrible stop and start stutter...really bad sim performance...load times...switching between screens..etc. As soon as I dropped out of MSFS,  re-set my two locks...FPS at 31, and vSync mode to 1/2 adaptive...I once more went to dead smooth animation...no stutter...fast switching between different aspects of the sim....and my FPS meter showed me that there was at any time, a bottleneck from any of the Main Thread, CPU, or GPU...but did not affect smooth animation performance. That was ONLY when I had no external limiter holding the FPS to a ceiling of 31.   FYI!

Very interesting post.  Dispiriting to see the many "it looks great to me, so I don't bother with fps" posts, which completely miss the point and needlessly clutter up the thread.

Edited by Hippo
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7 hours ago, Hippo said:

Discussing a "main thread",  then stating your average core load is a bit of a contradiction.  I, and others, do see one core whose utilisation is much higher than the rest.  You might want to recheck.

No, you might want to re-read.  I said *all* 10 cores were running at around 25% average, not that the average across the cores is 25%.  There is no single core loaded up significantly more than the others.


Bob Scott | President and CEO, AVSIM Inc
ATP Gulfstream II-III-IV-V

System: i9-10900K @ 5.2GHz on custom water loop, ASUS Maximus XII Hero, 32GB GSkill 3600MHz CAS15, EVGA RTX3090 XC3 Ultra
Samsung 55" JS8500 4K TV@30Hz,
3x NVME 2x SATA Samsung SSD, EVGA 1KW PSU, 1.2Gbps internet
SoundBlaster XFi Titanium, TOSLINK to Yamaha RX-V467 HT Rcvr, Polk/Klipsch 6" bookshelf spkrs, Polk 12" subwoofer, 12.9" iPad Pro
PFC yoke/throttle quad/pedals with custom Hall sensors, Coolermaster HAF932 case, Stream Deck XL button box

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1 hour ago, w6kd said:

No, you might want to re-read.  I said *all* 10 cores were running at around 25% average, not that the average across the cores is 25%.  There is no single core loaded up significantly more than the others.

This is the magic of vsync to 30Hz:  relaxes everything, and that is a very good thing considering the state of hardware currently, even the highest end hardware.  This refresh rate bias I believe is a hold over from CRT days--there is nothing significantly different about 30 and 60, beyond the ACTUAL frame rate delivered.  Put another way, in a double-blinded test, w/ frames FIXED at 30, and presuming totally smooth runtime video, the most viewers WILL NOT appreciate the difference between 30Hz and 60Hz screens.  My panning and video is totally smooth, with well-distributed CPU use amongst 8 cores I'm using.  

Edited by Noel
  • Upvote 1

Noel

System:  9900K@4.9Ghz@1.185v all cores, MSI MPG Z390M GAMING EDGE AC, Noctua NH-D15S, Corsair Vengeance 32Gb LPX 3200mHz DDR4, Sabrent NVme 2Tb x 2, RTX 3080 Ti FE, Corsair RM 850W PSU, Win10 Pro, Dell curved 3440x1440, Saitek Yoke, TQ & Cessna Trim Wheel, 30 frames vSync to 60Hz.

 

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6 hours ago, Noel said:

This is the magic of vsync to 30Hz:  relaxes everything, and that is a very good thing considering the state of hardware currently, even the highest end hardware.  This refresh rate bias I believe is a hold over from CRT days--there is nothing significantly different about 30 and 60, beyond the ACTUAL frame rate delivered.  Put another way, in a double-blinded test, w/ frames FIXED at 30, and presuming totally smooth runtime video, the most viewers WILL NOT appreciate the difference between 30Hz and 60Hz screens.  My panning and video is totally smooth, with well-distributed CPU use amongst 8 cores I'm using.  

Yes! Panning around with Track IR now has no freezes or stutters. Worked very good for me.

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On 8/23/2020 at 10:24 AM, Sesquashtoo said:

The reason that so many people are frustrated with lousy FPS,  bad stutter..with state of the Art innards...is this:

(and even on my modest system) is that there definitely is a bug in the sim engine that has the MAIN THREAD pegged at overload.  If you have unlimited FPS (not locked down by an external app such as the nVidia Control App...,  you will indeed have stutter and if you run the internal FPS meter...it will show a constant RED  LIMITED BY THE MAIN THREAD.  This is an engine bug, that is not using (when there is no limiter) all your cores, equally. 

Now, I suggest you try this...go into your nVidia control app, and set the FPS lock to 30 FPS...for a reason...never mind that you might not want to run with that...this is an experiment---->and then set vsync to 1/2 Adaptive, press APPLY and then go fly.   Make sure you have the in house FPS meter running, and you will now see that any LIMITATION could be showing as the Main THREAD, the CPU, or ...the GPU.  But...I'll bet dollars to donuts, that your stutter...no matter how minimal or beefy your system is...will be gone. You will have smooth animation, even at a locked 30 FPS ceiling.  Try that...and see if YOUR FPS meter now shows any of three possible bottlenecks and not the RED MAIN THREAD..pegged solid.  Try that...and make your decisions on that basis.  I was getting near 50 FPS not locked down...and I had terrible stop and start stutter...really bad sim performance...load times...switching between screens..etc. As soon as I dropped out of MSFS,  re-set my two locks...FPS at 31, and vSync mode to 1/2 adaptive...I once more went to dead smooth animation...no stutter...fast switching between different aspects of the sim....and my FPS meter showed me that there was at any time, a bottleneck from any of the Main Thread, CPU, or GPU...but did not affect smooth animation performance. That was ONLY when I had no external limiter holding the FPS to a ceiling of 31.   FYI!

for whatever reason, I am showing limited by main thread only when I lock the gpu to 30 and 1/2 adaptive in nvidia control panel


Kind regards,

Tim

CPU: Intel Core i7-8700K (OC 4.7) CPU COOLER: Noctua nh-d15S GPU: Nvidia GTX 1070-Ti FTW2 8GB  SSD: Crucial MX500 1TB HDD: Seagate 500GB - Maxtor 250GB - WD 250GB RAM: Team Vulcan 16 GB MBD: Gigabyte Z370P D3
PSU: Evga 650w  OS: Win 10 Pro

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Here’s mine with vsync locked @ 60. No edits, just raw video. Taken with an iphone from my 4k tv. 
I am now a believer that it’s not all about FPS. It’s about a well balanced system 
i5-9600k @ 4.3 ; RTX 2060 Super ; 32gb RAM; Samsung NVME 

 

 

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17 hours ago, w6kd said:

No, you might want to re-read.  I said *all* 10 cores were running at around 25% average, not that the average across the cores is 25%.  There is no single core loaded up significantly more than the others.

Re-read.  Point taken.  Sorry, no offence intended.

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8 hours ago, Numafc said:

What is HT?

Hyperthreading


Bob Scott | President and CEO, AVSIM Inc
ATP Gulfstream II-III-IV-V

System: i9-10900K @ 5.2GHz on custom water loop, ASUS Maximus XII Hero, 32GB GSkill 3600MHz CAS15, EVGA RTX3090 XC3 Ultra
Samsung 55" JS8500 4K TV@30Hz,
3x NVME 2x SATA Samsung SSD, EVGA 1KW PSU, 1.2Gbps internet
SoundBlaster XFi Titanium, TOSLINK to Yamaha RX-V467 HT Rcvr, Polk/Klipsch 6" bookshelf spkrs, Polk 12" subwoofer, 12.9" iPad Pro
PFC yoke/throttle quad/pedals with custom Hall sensors, Coolermaster HAF932 case, Stream Deck XL button box

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14 hours ago, Pulsepowered said:

Here’s mine with vsync locked @ 60. No edits, just raw video. Taken with an iphone from my 4k tv. 
I am now a believer that it’s not all about FPS. It’s about a well balanced system 
i5-9600k @ 4.3 ; RTX 2060 Super ; 32gb RAM; Samsung NVME 

 

 

Is the big white number on top is frame rate?  If so, you using RTSS w/ x/2, or 30Hz refreshed screen?  I always have smooth as well and use vsync to 30Hz.

Edited by Noel

Noel

System:  9900K@4.9Ghz@1.185v all cores, MSI MPG Z390M GAMING EDGE AC, Noctua NH-D15S, Corsair Vengeance 32Gb LPX 3200mHz DDR4, Sabrent NVme 2Tb x 2, RTX 3080 Ti FE, Corsair RM 850W PSU, Win10 Pro, Dell curved 3440x1440, Saitek Yoke, TQ & Cessna Trim Wheel, 30 frames vSync to 60Hz.

 

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There is FOR SURE an issue, as this is all over forums. Despite having high-end spec configuration FPS stucks at a certain level (in my case always around 25-35fps). With a 9900k, 32 GB, 2080Ti on 1440p resolution it should be way higher. No matter the graphical settings, including resolution change, AI on/off, rolling cache on/off et cet. -> it always stays on the same level. Every other Sim runs fine, CPU/GPU/Mem checks reveal nothing.

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