Galileo or GPS - Which will you use?

[Guest]

It has very valid issues. Good catch turning it up.If someone is offended by the truth being revealed that tells more about them than about the person bringing out that truth.

[Guest Paul Heaney]

I live in Canada, so GPS is Free for me :)

[mgh 89]

"What is truth"?

[Guest Adverse Yawn]

I think they're valid. Although the big brother bit is a little far fetched. I wouldn't call hauliers tracking their fleet with GPS big brother. But I do think Europe sees a cash cow and forced usage of their constellation through regulation.

[tf51d 284]

>I never said GPS is free and neither does anyone else.>But GPS has an established military use which pays for its>deployment, the civilian functionality is a spinoff from>that.>>Galileo is a commercial product first, created using taxpayer>money in order to extort more money from those same>taxpayers.Yes I know, but my point is the US taxpayer pays for all US Military operations and equipment including GPS, so it is no different than the EU Taxpayer paying for Galileo.

[Guest]

There is a difference. The US taxpayer gets something out of it through their military, the EU taxpayer does not.He's paying through his taxes for the existense of the system and then again through subscription fees to services using the system (many of which he'll be forced to sign up for by his government in order for that government to collect even more taxes from him).EU military forces use GPS widely, they're not about to move to Galileo (except maybe the French) as they're pretty much geared to US equipment.They I think pay the US for that use, again out of EU taxpayer pockets.

[Guest]

haulers tracking their fleets isn't the problem, it's the plans EU countries have to install Galileo equipment and radio transmitters in every car that will send a signal with position, direction of travel, and speed (and possibly other vehicle data) to a police computer every minute or so.That will effectively tell the government where everyone using a car is at any time.At the same time trials are underway for a system to track the movement of everyone using public transport.Everyone will get a personalised chipcard which needs to be inserted into a slot in order to enter a bus or train. When exiting again the card is inserted again and the fee extracted. At the same time the route travelled is recorded.Those are not speculations, both systems are in development at this time with scheduled introduction in service over the coming years.Implants allowing the tracking of everyone with accuracy of a few meters aren't yet publicly announced but I've a feeling those are under development as well.There are already bracelets with GPS receivers and radio transmitters available to track people with house arrest...

[Guest Adverse Yawn]

>>Those are not speculations, both systems are in development at this >>time with scheduled introduction in service over the coming years.For one thing, Europe cannot make these kinds of rules/laws/regulations. They are matters of national suzerainty. All Europe can do is provide the system and offer it. In the case of Euro controlled bodies such as EASA, they can (and probably will) mandate Galileo's use where the need currently exists.The UK wants to introduce a new road charging scheme using GPS. The proposal is just that. There is no development work in progress. It is still at the political stage and probably won't get very far for a while. This was announced nearly a year ago with no progress since then. No doubt they have Galileo in mind. I don't like the idea of it but as a speeding deterant and carbon tax it is a pretty neat solution. The initial system will be for commercial road traffic. However, the costs will be humungous and according to current proposals, the individual will have to pay much more so a few political hurdles still exist.The public transport thing won't happen the way described either. Simply because, for the UK at least, any effort to produce an integrated transport system has failed. The costs would be huge and Governments that increase taxes don't get voted in. London Transport has recently invested massively in Oyster and couldn't possibly take on another huge IT projects.Unfortunately for Big Brother, reality gets in the way. However, the UK government is using the war on terror to unfairly and unreasonably justify much of these efforts.

[Guest]

When and if Brussels wants to introduce such systems the EC has the power to override national law of the memberstates to do it.The rejection of the so-called "constitution" makes it a bit more difficult but strong forces are at work in Brussels and Strassbourg to override the will of the people and implement it anyway. The UK is going to implement it, the Netherlands are already carrying out limited trials and the system is scheduled to go operational here in 2012.It's easy to get something implemented that is unpopular. Just make sure the actual implementation (rather than the decision to implement) is done by the next government (which will likely be run by another party) and you're sure to win the next elections after that and not take the blame (in fact you could use the program you yourself voted for to your favour by speaking up against it during implementation but not so loudly it gets cancelled).

[Guest Adverse Yawn]

Yes, it is true that govs can implement something unpopular. The UK govs technique for doing this is to 'leak' something outrageous that causes much consternation and then the official proposal is watered down. Even though the officiel propsal would have been rejected out of hand if it were seen by the public first, but be because the previous 'leaked' version was totally outrageous the official one gets voted in by MPs. It is all a bit of a scam!Yes the UK is going to implement it as it is the inevitible logical conclusion to our road taxes, but it won't be up and running for another 15 years at least.>>When and if Brussels wants to introduce such systems the EC has the >>power to override national law of the memberstates to do it.That is not currently true. The EU cannot change national laws. National laws may need to be changed to come into line with EU bills that the nation has chosen to sign up to, the Human Rights legislation is one such.