September 3rd, 2020 - Development Update

[Paraffin 2,197]

2 hours ago, Scottoest said:

I guess I just expected a little better from a community of what I assume is primarily older folks in the sim community.

Well, try counting the number of posts here in the Avsim MSFS forum saying "RIP XP" after MSFS was announced. There is an instinct towards tribalism and in-group reinforcement in any hobby, this one is no different. You can be petty and act juvenile at any age.

Anyway, you don't have to spend time in the x-plane.org forums if you don't want to. I only go to the developer sub-forums when looking for info on a particular aircraft model I've purchased.

Also, the obligatory note: x-plane.org is not an official Laminar forum. It's owned by someone who isn't associated with Laminar except as a storefront, and the forums are designed to support the sales there.

[Scottoest 1,561]

2 hours ago, Paraffin said:

Well, try counting the number of posts here in the Avsim MSFS forum saying "RIP XP" after MSFS was announced. There is an instinct towards tribalism and in-group reinforcement in any hobby, this one is no different. You can be petty and act juvenile at any age.

Anyway, you don't have to spend time in the x-plane.org forums if you don't want to. I only go to the developer sub-forums when looking for info on a particular aircraft model I've purchased.

Also, the obligatory note: x-plane.org is not an official Laminar forum. It's owned by someone who isn't associated with Laminar except as a storefront, and the forums are designed to support the sales there.

I mean, even back when certain... over-enthusiastic... people were saying stuff like that, there was an opposing reaction of people telling everyone to chill out, it'll take time to mature, etc. (I'm pretty sure you were even one of them)  And even a lot of that hyperbole had subsided in recent months, in favour of... arguments about tree size, and undulating runways, haha.

Have you looked at that thread?  It's a burning tire fire of juvenile behaviour and condescension, including from what appears to be some established, long-time members of that community.  Anyone with anything positive to say will have about five other members derisively explaining why they are wrong within about two minutes - again, including a few users who even admitted they haven't actually used it themselves yet (so what on earth are they even doing there?).  I even recognize a few of the users from here, where they've been a little better behaved.

I just think it's embarrassing.  A thread like that in here, even back in the salad days of the overheated hype machine, would've been locked about 20 pages ago.

And yeah, I know it's not an official forum. I'm not putting this on LR or anything.  But it appears to be a large XP community, and what I was reading was just incredible.

[Slides 1,552]

15 hours ago, ThomseN_inc said:

I am pretty sure the team that was working on the "modeling of the entire planet at a detail never to be seen before" was not the same that was working on flight dynamics and autopilots. So i guess it wouldn't be an unrealistic expectation to get a working plane with working avionics at release.

And please stop telling people they shouldn't look at MSFS through the same lens as on FSX. For me as a user i don't care. I have paid a whole bunch of money for MSFS and expect the basic things to work. 

Yes, the teams were different, but it's clear from the results that the most resources, in both quantity and quality, were put towards the "modeling of the entire planet at a detail never to be seen before". Development studies don't exist in a vacuum. They prioritize based on their goals. They assign A, b or C teams to different projects based on their priority. 

And you do have multiple working planes with working avionics. Not sure why you think otherwise. 

And if as a user you don't care, why as a user did you (not you personally, but others like you) pay for 100s of dollars worth of payware for X-Plane and P3D/FSX to make them work as you liked? Why didn't you settle for the default packages? And you (again not you personally) have at most paid only $120 for MSFS to get "modeling of the entire planet at a detail never to be seen before". If you don't care about that aspect of the sim, then you should not have bought MSFS.

[Slides 1,552]

10 hours ago, Scottoest said:

I guess I just expected a little better from a community of what I assume is primarily older folks in the sim community.

Wait till you see some of the Facebook groups for MSFS. It's people complaining about things that they only have in other sims through $1,000 worth of add ons. They completely lack any perspective and act like the spoiled children they are.

And what can you really expect from the flight sim community, where some members will still buy into the conspiracy theory that Asobo didn't implement a new FM (despite actual evidence and statements). 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Slides

[ThomseN_inc 1,128]

3 hours ago, Slides said:

And if as a user you don't care, why as a user did you (not you personally, but others like you) pay for 100s of dollars worth of payware for X-Plane and P3D/FSX to make them work as you liked? Why didn't you settle for the default packages? And you (again not you personally) have at most paid only $120 for MSFS to get "modeling of the entire planet at a detail never to be seen before". If you don't care about that aspect of the sim, then you should not have bought MSFS.

Personally i do care for the Scenery in MSFS. But i do care for a working Autopilot and working avionics too. I just don't get why the Devs model a world on such a high level of detail and then give us planes at hand which are basic at best. I mean whats the point in colaborating with Garmin when you don't model their Avionics right? Doesn't make sense and if i was a developer i'd be thinking to myself "Come on! You're better than that! This has to be perfect!"

And again i am not a developer and i have no experience in programming. But when a simple Garming G1000 Training tool can simulate almost all functions correctly why can't MSFS do it too?

But i get your point. MSFS looks so fantastic you should be able to cope with planes and other essential functions being modeled sub par. 

 

Just to make it clear. I am really enjoying MSFS even in its early state and i am in no way trying to bash the Sim in any way. I just wish the devs would have put as much work into the planes as they did put into the Scenery and weather system.

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by ThomseN_inc

[Slides 1,552]

2 hours ago, ThomseN_inc said:

But when a simple Garming G1000 Training tool can simulate almost all functions correctly why can't MSFS do it too?

A very valid question. While I don't have any details, I can make a few educated guesses from my own experience in the corporate world.

Asobo promised MS the entire world, literally, and they ran into technical issues integrating Blackshark, Bing etc into their engine and the FSX codebase. 

This diverted their resources for a better part of their multi year contract.

MS got impatient with the pace of progress and set an aggressive deadline of August 18th for Asobo.

Asobo scrambled their resources to the AP and avionics team as that was their last to do items and assigned whoever was available in whatever short amount of time that they had. The results as we see were not feature complete in the eyes of the community.

This all is complete conjecture but not unheard of.

I'm sure that given the resources and time, a single Asobo developer could recreate the G1000 to exact detail. Let's see.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Slides

[ShawnG 1,823]

13 hours ago, Paraffin said:

Well, try counting the number of posts here in the Avsim MSFS forum saying "RIP XP" after MSFS was announced. There is an instinct towards tribalism and in-group reinforcement in any hobby, this one is no different. You can be petty and act juvenile at any age.

my read on the RIP xp and RIP p3d posts were that they were from users of those sims looking forward to being done with them, rather than opposing camps rooting on the demise of the other.  believe it or not, both of those sims (still) present a whole lot of problems and challenges, and when MSFS was in the theoretical stage, it was imagined that MS would be all things to all men.  NOW that the sim is released and the choices aren't as rosy, there will be factions forming over what compromises you are into, just like always.  But back then, it was just a "thank god, I'm not gonna have to deal with (XP) or (p3d) any more"

for myself, I used p3d.  I wouldn't have ever said RIP x-plane.  I don't care what happens to x-plane. I don't use it.

[WestAir 2,522]

The way I see it, the sim was going to be "feature complete" sometime next year, and we get to play it before it's done.

ASOBO couldn't have predicted the feature delays or covid-19. They were never going to be feature complete by Christmas. And that's okay - I'm having fun with the incomplete version.

[canuk_22 24]

Let's wait a year and see before putting the big X on the competition, personally I re-installed XP10 and actually having fun, saving some buck and going XP11 next.  I also have my Majestic Q400 and P3Dv5 going.  I enjoy challenges, difficult and technical things way more than pretty clouds.

[P_R_S 18]

1 hour ago, canuk_22 said:

I enjoy challenges, difficult and technical things

Well, you have all in MSFS.... Just not in the right spot 🙂

[canuk_22 24]

1 minute ago, P_R_S said:

Well, you have all in MSFS.... Just not in the right spot 🙂

LOL...the technical challenges of MSFS have nothing to do with a flight, I could do without.

[EmaRacing 302]

On 9/7/2020 at 6:23 PM, mtr75 said:

Wow, the ATC phraseology is on their radar, that's fantastic. It's so bad on the initial release I'm surprised they didn't give us the option of announcing "taking the active" for takeoff.

LOL, it's so useless that I had to silence it, it doesn't even "see" other players and traffic.

[mtr75 653]

On 9/8/2020 at 2:28 AM, ShawnG said:

my read on the RIP xp and RIP p3d posts were that they were from users of those sims looking forward to being done with them, rather than opposing camps rooting on the demise of the other.

Oh, these posts/threads exist? Remarkable! A week or two ago everyone denied that they did. 

It was a combination of what you describe above, however, a lot of it was MSFS fanlads who were absolutely obnoxious, telling everyone how MSFS was going to be perfect and crush [insert sim here] and how nobody would ever use it again. And it’s precisely because of these obnoxious punks - who were freely allowed by the mods here to post this rubbish - that there has been such a level of backlash and dissatisfaction with MSFS as it was released. 

And really these threads just should have been deleted immediately. Their only purpose was to fan the flames. And they succeeded. 

[RamonB 449]

55 minutes ago, mtr75 said:

t was a combination of what you describe above, however, a lot of it was MSFS fanlads who were absolutely obnoxious, telling everyone how MSFS was going to be perfect and crush [insert sim here] and how nobody would ever use it again. And it’s precisely because of these obnoxious punks - who were freely allowed by the mods here to post this rubbish - that there has been such a level of backlash and dissatisfaction with MSFS as it was released. 

Fiuuu.  😓
Just had a Déjà vu moment; I thought You were talking about what happened some time ago, in another place.