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xender

A few questions about flying with the 152

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Generally a 152 never had DME installed. It's a training plane. Also VOR and DME are completely different radios. A VOR only provides azimuth in the VHF radio frequencies. DME is colocated at a lot of VOR sites but transmits and receives in the UHF frequency bands.  VHF and DME (Channels) frequencies have been paired to work together.  On some NAVCOM units when you dial in a VOR with DME the nav unit sends a signal to a seperate DME transceiver in the plane to dial in it's paired UHF frequency. VOR is receive only ie azimuth and sometimes voice. DME is more expensive because it transmits and reveives pulses to and from the DME site to compute distance at higher UHF freqs.

 

Stephen Aull

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Steve Aull

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2 hours ago, xender said:

Thanks a lot guys for all the insight. Seems like i will be switching to the 172.

The reason i chose the 152 was because it felt like one of the most realistic/less buggy planes in the sim (Even more if you add the amazing mod). But, i will be switching to the 172 with gauges.

Thanks!

I understand and agree with some of the other posters about the limitations of the C152 for this type of journey.  Service ceiling, lack of autopilot - requiring constant hand flying attention etc, lack of GPS, lack of anti-ice etc are all valid considerations.  However, I would still not give up on the C152, especially now the C152 modification has Long Range Tanks etc. 

I really hope one day to be able to find the time to conduct a similar round the world flight, using only traditional navigation etc.  I have in mind the possibility to do it using the C152.  I think there would be a lot of satisfaction to succeed in making long overwater legs without GPS and finding the destination etc, all requiring similar planning, airmanship and navigation considerations to what would be required if you tried to do this for real.   To achieve this properly in the slow flying C152 for example, with all its limitations, would really be a major achievement.  It also gives the chance to fly closer to the terrain, which in this sim is very often a beautiful experience.

However, I am not going to waste the time and spoil the possible enjoyment of a big undertaking such as this, UNTIL the live weather and especially the winds aloft are fixed up totally in the sim.  The winds aloft are the critical element for traditional navigation.

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5 hours ago, Chock said:

Ground adjustable tabs on most aeroplanes are not normally intended to be adjusted by pilots; it's more of an engineer task, since you actually have to bend the metal.

Yes it is! I bent mine own

 

By the way some 172 come with rudder trim but this an option no by default

28_0500233RT_80A_2_1_12825_zoom1__05809.

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flight sim addict, airplane owner, CFI

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On 9/6/2020 at 10:37 AM, xender said:

I plan to fly around the world with this but after finishing my first flight in it i have a few questions:1) Since this doesnt have autopilot i have to constantly make aileron and rudder trim adjustments.

where did you find rudder trim in a c152? correct me if I am wrong but they don't have it, in neither MSFS c152 nor real world 

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There is project to improve the C152, greatly improves some aspects of accuracy and handling. It is a very nice plane to fly but it would not be my choice for a round the world flight with no AP. I did a 1:30 flight in it and I could not even hand over to the AI co-pilot as he/she immediately did a 180 degree turn, even though I was flying to a flight plan.

Link to the 152 upgrade here: https://github.com/DRF30q/C152X

If you go with the C172, do not trust the AP and leave it unattended. Every so often it can decide to go vertical, either up or down, with obvious consequences. I find the VS selection a bit buggy too.

Edited by RaptyrOne

GregH

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On 9/6/2020 at 7:37 AM, gnirtS said:

Yep, the DME, a basic, essential instrument missing is a bug.
VOR without a DME makes no sense at all.

Not all VOR stations have a co-located DME array, so even if your aircraft has a DME receiver, it won't do any good in such a case.


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Interests: Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling for Milviz

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30 minutes ago, RaptyrOne said:

If you go with the C172, do not trust the AP and leave it unattended. Every so often it can decide to go vertical, either up or down, with obvious consequences. I find the VS selection a bit buggy too.

That happened to me, but it wasn't the AP's fault.  Flight Sim decided to hit me with a gust of wind like a brick wall that disengaged my AP and sent me plummeting into Puget Sound, shortly after takeoff from KORS..  Pilot dead, restart flight.

I am much more careful about flying with 'otto' now and usually only engage it after I've put a few thousand feet between me and the ground and have properly trimmed up my ascent.

As far as the 172.  I have the deluxe premium, and they have a conventional instrumented 172 which is my favorite plane to fly.  I guess because I've been flying 172/182's during my entire flight simming "career".  So if you want a non-glass 172, that's an option.  But your virtual adventure does sound pretty challenging.  I remember digging out the old Jeppsen charts that they used to include in early versions of flight sim and navigating with one of those from Meigs to Champlain IL.  Hopscotching VOR's seemed like such an acomplishment back then.  When you first saw that "Champlain" scenery appear from a sea of green felt like seeing a lighthouse in a storm.  I then started being more adventurous and used two VOR's to triangulate my position and plot a more "direct" route to Champlain.

Needless to say, I haven't done that lately.  When Microsoft stopped including their charts with the simulator, I went on to different ways to navigate.  Ironically now with MSFS 2020 I primarily navigate the same way as I navigate using my car....Freeways.  

Edited by wthomas33065
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13 hours ago, EvidencePlz said:

where did you find rudder trim in a c152? correct me if I am wrong but they don't have it, in neither MSFS c152 nor real world 

I find if I press and hold Ctrl (on the left) and number board (4) or (6), the rudder appears to trim. 

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On 9/6/2020 at 11:37 AM, xender said:

Hi guys!

I plan to fly around the world with this but after finishing my first flight in it i have a few questions. 

Real world flying always starts with basic control of the airplane. No navigation radios, no autopilot, no complex equipment. Just you, the air, the airplane. Before you start your around the world trip, I suggest to learn how to fly the plane. The air is constantly moving, the plane is moving with it. Airplanes are more like ships than cars. You need to accept some movements, it will be up and down, some roll, some pitch. Learning how to set your engine RPM and elavator trim is essential. 

Before you start using GPS and VOR, try to just fly slow (C152 - ca. 70 knots) over familar terrain, ca. 3000 ft AGL, using ordinary paper or computer based map (on separate computer or tablet). Just the ordinary one, not linked to the sim. 

The MFS2020 is made for this with great terrain representation. 

Make sure you look outside the cockpit as much as possible. Use the distance between the horizon and the engine cowling as the speed (angle of attack) reference. Use real horizon as your roll reference. Move your view point up, to see as much of the outside as possible, define a custom view (or use one of the pedefined views) assign the views to the buttons on your yoke or control stick.

Other than take-off (engine on full throttle) and crosswind landings C152 barely requires any rudder input, so no real need for rudder trim. Just accept some skidding at the beginning of your virtual pilot career, unless you have hardware rudder pedals. The elevator trim is however essential. Set your power (below 2000 RPM for slow flight), keep the altitude steady with the elevator, let the plane stabilize in a minute on the airspeed corresponding to the power setting, then gradually release the pressure from your yoke (elevator) and simultaneously apply then trim - airplane should stabilize at given speed and level flight. Stay with fair weather, there will be less of wandering, you have to accept it to some extent. 

Remember - in stabilized flight yoke (elevator) controls the airspeed, throttle controls increasing or decreasing altitude, ailerons controlled roll and turning, rudder allows you perfectly coordinated turns to please your flight instructor.

Elevator trim, relieves you from the need to constantly apply pressure to the yoke (elevator) to keep the desired airspeed.

 To much control input often makes the stability of flight worse (pilot induced oscillations). 

All real world pilots start with that, there must be a reason for it. 

Edited by Steku
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I was thinking about a round the world trip, but flying long legs in an airliner, then doing short local legs in GA craft where there is much to see.

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17 hours ago, EvidencePlz said:

where did you find rudder trim in a c152? correct me if I am wrong but they don't have it, in neither MSFS c152 nor real world 

My bad, its not rudder trim.

The aircraft is responding fine to aileron trim and elevator trim. Using those im able to maintain level flight with minimal input for long periods of time


Juan Ramos
Sorry for my bad english

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5 hours ago, wthomas33065 said:

When Microsoft stopped including their charts with the simulator, I went on to different ways to navigate.

Have a look at skyvector.com to find charts.  This is how I've been navigating for years in the sims.  Before that I used airnav.com which no longer has charts.

Hook

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Larry Hookins

 

Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;

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7 minutes ago, LHookins said:

Have a look at skyvector.com to find charts.  This is how I've been navigating for years in the sims.  Before that I used airnav.com which no longer has charts.

Hook

SkyVector.com is great.

Airnav.com absolutely has charts.  Both approach plates and all of the sectionals, both IFR and VFR.

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16 minutes ago, LarryD said:

SkyVector.com is great.

Airnav.com absolutely has charts.  Both approach plates and all of the sectionals, both IFR and VFR.

I knew airnav still had approach plates, but I wasn't aware they still had sectional charts.  I had to drill down to find one, but it was there.

I find skyvector to be more useful for flight planning as I don't use any of the in-sim planning functions.

Hook


Larry Hookins

 

Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;

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1 hour ago, xender said:

My bad, its not rudder trim.

The aircraft is responding fine to aileron trim and elevator trim. Using those im able to maintain level flight with minimal input for long periods of time

yes but the in-sim C152 in MSFS doesn't have such a thing (aileron trim), nor do I know of a c152 in real world that has such a thing. that's why I was asking. 

You can use keyboard (or joystick buttons, axis etc) to simulate aileron trim but doing so would be akin to using cheats, and not realistic. 

Anyways if you find it comfortable doing what you are doing, good for you. But if you wanna do it realistically, I suggest you unbind the aileron trim keys/axis, just like some people prefer to disable the in-sim VFR map.

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