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flyinion

787 won't land? what am I doing wrong here?

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Set up a big circuit to practice landings after I almost botched my first one in it last night and just assumed I was tired etc.  Coming down the ILS, about 500 AGL I disconnect the autopilot, about 50 feet off the runway I pull back slightly to flare and the thing just start climbing away.  Like I have to force the nose down to get it on the ground.  I took a quick look at the trim to see if the AP was still trying to do something but it wasn't moving so I'm not sure what is going on here?  I want to say I was coming in about 160kts flaps 25.  Setup on takeoff was about 14-15% fuel just because I was only doing a 60nm circuit  (making sure I had time to get on the ILS etc) and TO weight of about 410K lbs including fuel and payload.  I've also noticed on takeoff the nose starts coming up way before VR so I'm not sure if this is related?


Charles Paluda

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My recommendation............don't even bother with the 787 until the CFG files are made available for tweaking and some good souls can have at it with the flight model and such.  In its current state it's awful to handle on the ground and in the air.  The A/P is a disaster at the moment.

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Sincerely,

Dennis D. Müllert

System Specs: Motherboard:  Gygabyte Aorus Z390 Master.  CPU: Intel 9th Gen Core i9 9900kf Eight-Core 3.6Mhz overclocked to 5Mhz.  Memory:  64GB Corsair DDR4 SDRAM 3200MHZ RGB.  GPU: 11GB GeForce RTX 2080Ti FTW3 Hybrid.  Monitor: Viotek 34" curved GNV34DBE.  Power Supply: 1000 Watt Power supply. HD 1: 1TB Samsung 9780 EVO Plus NVMe SSD.  HD 2: 2TB Samsung 860 EVO SATA SSD

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16 minutes ago, DMullert said:

My recommendation............don't even bother with the 787 until the CFG files are made available for tweaking and some good souls can have at it with the flight model and such.  In its current state it's awful to handle on the ground and in the air.  The A/P is a disaster at the moment.

Thanks. That’s what I was afraid of ☹️  Maybe I’ll try the next one as an auto land and see if that works at all. After a number of failed flights lnav wise I think I’ve figured out how to work around those issues. Just gotta nail down the landings a bit. 


Charles Paluda

AMD Ryzen 3700X |  Asus Crosshair VIII Hero | EVGA 2080 Super FTW3 Hydrocopper | GSkill Trident Z Neo 2x16GB DDR4-3600 | Samsung 970 EVO Plus 500GB | Samsung 860 Evo 2TB | Phanteks Enthoo 719 | Seasonic Prime Ultra Gold 1000W | Steelseries M750 TKL | SteelSeries Rival 700 | SteelSeries QcK Prism XL| SteelSeries Arctis Pro + GameDAC | Honeycomb Alpha and Bravo | Logitech Pro Flight Pedals | LG 34GN850 | Asus PG279Q | Win 10 Pro

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14 hours ago, badderjet said:

Maybe you should stop flaring an airliner at 50 feet.

With reaction time it’s more like 20 and it was already trying to float back up by itself. I can’t very well land it nose gear first though now can I?


Charles Paluda

AMD Ryzen 3700X |  Asus Crosshair VIII Hero | EVGA 2080 Super FTW3 Hydrocopper | GSkill Trident Z Neo 2x16GB DDR4-3600 | Samsung 970 EVO Plus 500GB | Samsung 860 Evo 2TB | Phanteks Enthoo 719 | Seasonic Prime Ultra Gold 1000W | Steelseries M750 TKL | SteelSeries Rival 700 | SteelSeries QcK Prism XL| SteelSeries Arctis Pro + GameDAC | Honeycomb Alpha and Bravo | Logitech Pro Flight Pedals | LG 34GN850 | Asus PG279Q | Win 10 Pro

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I fly only the 748 and the 787 in fs2020. I am not interested in any other plane. You can do auto lands with no problems as far as you maintain the approach/ flap speeds. I do agree with the other poster that both Boeing planes have to be updated (no T/C and T/D)  among other things missing but over all I like the feel of flying a heavy iron which is missing in X-Plane. Happy flying.

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1 hour ago, aero943 said:

I fly only the 748 and the 787 in fs2020. I am not interested in any other plane. You can do auto lands with no problems as far as you maintain the approach/ flap speeds. I do agree with the other poster that both Boeing planes have to be updated (no T/C and T/D)  among other things missing but over all I like the feel of flying a heavy iron which is missing in X-Plane. Happy flying.

Thanks. Where are you getting the approach and flap speeds since the approach page is not modeled in the FMC? I suspect if I had those I’d be having an easier time landing this thing. The A320 is super easy compared to this mess 

Edited by flyinion

Charles Paluda

AMD Ryzen 3700X |  Asus Crosshair VIII Hero | EVGA 2080 Super FTW3 Hydrocopper | GSkill Trident Z Neo 2x16GB DDR4-3600 | Samsung 970 EVO Plus 500GB | Samsung 860 Evo 2TB | Phanteks Enthoo 719 | Seasonic Prime Ultra Gold 1000W | Steelseries M750 TKL | SteelSeries Rival 700 | SteelSeries QcK Prism XL| SteelSeries Arctis Pro + GameDAC | Honeycomb Alpha and Bravo | Logitech Pro Flight Pedals | LG 34GN850 | Asus PG279Q | Win 10 Pro

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Next time probably Tomorrow I will post a screen capture of the Autoland Approach. Just see what’s going on. Fly Boeing...

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17 hours ago, badderjet said:

Maybe you should stop flaring an airliner at 50 feet.

 

2 hours ago, aero943 said:

I fly only the 748 and the 787 in fs2020. I am not interested in any other plane. You can do auto lands with no problems as far as you maintain the approach/ flap speeds. I do agree with the other poster that both Boeing planes have to be updated (no T/C and T/D)  among other things missing but over all I like the feel of flying a heavy iron which is missing in X-Plane. Happy flying.

 

1 hour ago, aero943 said:

Next time probably Tomorrow I will post a screen capture of the Autoland Approach. Just see what’s going on. Fly Boeing...

Would definitely appreciate the autloand screen capture.  I don't know what it is but apparently I'm doing something massively wrong still.  I tried to let it autoland just now and it came down fairly hard then bounced back up in the air again and I had to shove the nose down hard (stick all the way forward) while it continued bouncing down the runway.  Something is seriously wrong. 

I've never had this issue with payware aircraft like the PMDG 737 etc.  I thought I knew what I was doing with the airliners but either I am doing something really really wrong or this default aircraft is SERIOUSLY messed up.  I was coming in at flaps 25 about 150/155 knots (not sure which things got hairy and I was trying to get the speed down lower to the "25" mark on the tape which was below VREF).  Overall weight on takeoff for the 60nm circuit at 4000ft was about 405K lbs. 

I also noticed the TOGA toggle doesn't seem to work, at least not on takeoff.  The keyboard binding I mean...... shift-ctrl-g.  I have to press the hotspot on the throttle to use it and if I barely rest my hand on my throttle it disconnects the TOGA in the sim.


Charles Paluda

AMD Ryzen 3700X |  Asus Crosshair VIII Hero | EVGA 2080 Super FTW3 Hydrocopper | GSkill Trident Z Neo 2x16GB DDR4-3600 | Samsung 970 EVO Plus 500GB | Samsung 860 Evo 2TB | Phanteks Enthoo 719 | Seasonic Prime Ultra Gold 1000W | Steelseries M750 TKL | SteelSeries Rival 700 | SteelSeries QcK Prism XL| SteelSeries Arctis Pro + GameDAC | Honeycomb Alpha and Bravo | Logitech Pro Flight Pedals | LG 34GN850 | Asus PG279Q | Win 10 Pro

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On autoland, just upon landing disconnect the A/T and activate the reverse trust, and make sure the spoilers are on. Bouncing means the engines still run with the VREF speed. Again a lot has to be done for both default Boeing planes. Happy flying

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4 minutes ago, aero943 said:

On autoland, just upon landing disconnect the A/T and activate the reverse trust, and make sure the spoilers are on. Bouncing means the engines still run with the VREF speed. Again a lot has to be done for both default Boeing planes. Happy flying

Thanks, so maybe the engines aren't idling properly?  Just before landing I pulled the levers back, including my first circuit attempt where the AP was disconnected first.  Do I need to disconnect the autothrottle as well?  I had the speed brakes armed, but when so much is going wrong there wasn't time to look and see if they actually deployed.  The real problem I think is it doesn't actually touch down.  It gets just above the runway then starts climbing on it's own (no thrust increase or anything).


Charles Paluda

AMD Ryzen 3700X |  Asus Crosshair VIII Hero | EVGA 2080 Super FTW3 Hydrocopper | GSkill Trident Z Neo 2x16GB DDR4-3600 | Samsung 970 EVO Plus 500GB | Samsung 860 Evo 2TB | Phanteks Enthoo 719 | Seasonic Prime Ultra Gold 1000W | Steelseries M750 TKL | SteelSeries Rival 700 | SteelSeries QcK Prism XL| SteelSeries Arctis Pro + GameDAC | Honeycomb Alpha and Bravo | Logitech Pro Flight Pedals | LG 34GN850 | Asus PG279Q | Win 10 Pro

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After turning off the A/T take the thrust levers briefly up and immediately back and apply the reverse thrust. This will resolve the climbing/bouncing problem.

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2 hours ago, aero943 said:

After turning off the A/T take the thrust levers briefly up and immediately back and apply the reverse thrust. This will resolve the climbing/bouncing problem.

Just wanted to double check.  For disabling the A/T you mean the AT button on the MCP or the two A/T Arm switches above it?  

Either way I just wanted to report I FINALLY had a "decent" landing after trying the autothrottle thing.  About 500 feet I disco'd the AP and flipped both A/T arm switches and the AT button to off, throttled back, it still tried to raise the nose just above the ground similar to takeoff where it does it well below V1, but I'm guessing that's the buggy flight dynamics issues.  Kicked in the reverse thrust and finished rollout and no bouncing or floating back in the air.  Seems I might be able to fly this thing after all with some careful attention to working around the bugs.

Edited by flyinion

Charles Paluda

AMD Ryzen 3700X |  Asus Crosshair VIII Hero | EVGA 2080 Super FTW3 Hydrocopper | GSkill Trident Z Neo 2x16GB DDR4-3600 | Samsung 970 EVO Plus 500GB | Samsung 860 Evo 2TB | Phanteks Enthoo 719 | Seasonic Prime Ultra Gold 1000W | Steelseries M750 TKL | SteelSeries Rival 700 | SteelSeries QcK Prism XL| SteelSeries Arctis Pro + GameDAC | Honeycomb Alpha and Bravo | Logitech Pro Flight Pedals | LG 34GN850 | Asus PG279Q | Win 10 Pro

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On 9/7/2020 at 3:13 AM, DMullert said:

My recommendation............don't even bother with the 787 until the CFG files are made available for tweaking and some good souls can have at it with the flight model and such.  In its current state it's awful to handle on the ground and in the air.  The A/P is a disaster at the moment.

you need to realiise that MS released a sim where the default a/c autopilots dont work..... thats right you read correctly.... a bit like COD without guns,  and like FIFA without goals.  A flightsim where you cant properly fly the a/c it came with   

and whats more bizarre  is the "communinty" think thats fine because they got their sim they had been dreaming some 6 months early even though its chocked full of bugs and the non GA a/c are more or less unusable.  

good here innit. 

 

 


 
 
 
 
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