Patch Version 1.8.3.0 Is Now Available!

[Drumcode 1,893]

After all these months I was finally able to complete the flight with this patch. What a PITA of a release, my word.

[HiFlyer 9,359]

2 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

What I do find interesting is the MSFS bias.  Any issues with P3D or XP and it was the "world is ending", "bad programmers", "old tech", "refund", "poor QA", "cartoonish", "stutters" etc. etc.  But when those same users of MSFS have the same type of issues (plenty of them from day 1 installation), the answer is "wait they'll fix it in time".  Quite the contrast in "response" to problems in MSFS platform.  MSFS patches have indeed broken things ... hmmm sounds familiar. 😉  Only difference is users don't "hang MSFS" like they do other platforms. 

To me, the situations are in no way similar.

In our legacy sims, we've had years and in some cases even decades of observation of development speed, response (or lack of response) to ongoing issues, persistent problems, with various degrees of intractability due to the nature and age of the base programs themselves.

Even insights over time into available development resources, or lack of same.

We've seen the travails of Microsoft Flight and DTG Sim, and hopefully learned some of the lessons and things to look for.

Now, we have MSFS and to most outside observers we are looking at a whole new ballgame as to the resources, manpower, and even computing infrastructure thrown into the endeavor.

We have seen an unprecedented advertising campaign, unheard of levels of communication, and a massive beta effort. (whether it was cut short or not)

Beyond that we are undergoing a complete paradigm shift in what we thought was (at least graphically) possible in an aviation simulation encompassing the entire world.

Meanwhile, we seeing a web of partnerships unprecedented in its scope and promise.... Followed by an explosion of outside interest, massive buy-in from the outside public, a paradigm shift in third party priorities...

Its a LOT to take in!!

Given all of this and more, it seems hardly surprising to me that with all of that going on, plus Asobos commitment to regular updates and patches, that there is a lot of optimism out there, and in many of us, more than a little willingness to Give Asobo the benefit of a doubt and the opportunity to show their sincerity and skill in a grace period at least as long as those we allowed to our legacy sims in their very beginning's.

[Drumcode 1,893]

1 minute ago, HiFlyer said:

massive beta effort. (whether it was cut short or not)

Dude, it was a total sham. What are you talking about?

[HiFlyer 9,359]

2 minutes ago, Drumcode said:

Dude, it was a total sham. What are you talking about?

We disagree.

[Drumcode 1,893]

1 minute ago, HiFlyer said:

We disagree.

Really? Really?! Explain to me how in the world do you release a product in which weather is one of the most essential elements and it isn't working? How? On top of it the entire alpha team had over 17k Zendesk tickets open with with a multitude of issues reported, most of which carried over to retail is scandalous to say the least. I'm still fuming at this even though just this weekend I was able to first time complete a flight after what Asobo/Microsoft told me was a cause of my hardware. I didn't change a darn thing in my hardware and the patch fixed something somewhere. 

[HiFlyer 9,359]

1 minute ago, Drumcode said:

I'm still fuming at this

Apparently so.

Tell me... Were you expecting all of those tickets to be "solved" before launch?

To me, I simply believed that the beta was essentially expanded to everybody, which is not all that surprising considering the leaks, hacking, and people clamoring that they had seen enough, were tired of waiting, and wanted it NOW!

We are looking at an almost insanely ambitious endeavor, pushing the technological boundaries in several directions at once..... and I'm seeing.... just about what you would expect from a first effort at something this complex.

Teething pains.

And a lot of yelling.

*Shrugs*

[Adrian123 1,015]

2 minutes ago, Drumcode said:

Explain to me how in the world do you release a product in which weather is one of the most essential elements and it isn't working

Like Xplane? 😉

[Drumcode 1,893]

2 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

Apparently so.

Tell me... Were you expecting all of those tickets to be "solved" before launch?

I was expecting the weather to be working in retail yes, everyone and their mother in alpha was reporting this since MARCH!

Spoiler alert, the weather is still hosed.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Drumcode

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

2 minutes ago, Adrian123 said:

Like Xplane? 😉

Actually the weather in xplane is very complex. I think what you’re referring to is the visual representation of it....

[XCLTM3 112]

4 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Just a statement of fact, I've provided plenty of issues I have with MSFS direct or indirect via various online avenues from Tech Alpha, Dev Alpha SDK.  I think some of you need to dial back your MSFS critical sensitivity and look at the real issues as they are rather than what you hope they "will eventually be".

What I do find interesting is the MSFS bias.  Any issues with P3D or XP and it was the "world is ending", "bad programmers", "old tech", "refund", "poor QA", "cartoonish", "stutters" etc. etc.  But when those same users of MSFS have the same type of issues (plenty of them from day 1 installation), the answer is "wait they'll fix it in time".  Quite the contrast in "response" to problems in MSFS platform.  MSFS patches have indeed broken things ... hmmm sounds familiar. 😉  Only difference is users don't "hang MSFS" like they do other platforms. 

Either way, for any flight simulator to get better, you have to accept it's problems, identify to the development team, hope they address them.  Telling people problems don't exist doesn't help ... the strategy I used is to try to replicate the problem (always done this regardless of platform), because if I can replicate it then I can provide something useful to the development team to get it fixed.  I don't care if that is MSFS, P3D, XP ... the objective is to get resolution and the best "simulator" possible, point out problems is part of the process, apply it equally.

One aspect, using a modern DX12 graphics API will help with some of the stutters and performance problems many are having.  Using a decade old DX11 API is not "forward thinking".

Cheers, Rob.

I believe you may have misunderstood me. I have always maintained a respect for LM at the very least for continuing the FSX / MS franchise and I continued flying in that environment up until recent months. As a military man, I have several other levels of respect for LM which perhaps most civilians will never know or understand.

I have always conceded that there are issues with MSFS (check any forum- I utilize the same username) but like all software (P3D/XP included), these will be resolved in time. The critical sensitivity you refer to is something I've noticed on various forums - but the pendulum swings both ways - and  at times I've witnessed you defending P3D. I guess almost everyone is guilty at some level of this attitude/conduct regarding their preferred platform. I recall very clearly though, some 12 months ago you referred to MSFS as "Vaporware"  when it was publicly announced despite the video/still previews which were evidence of actual working software. I respectfully disagreed with your analysis then, as I knew instinctively 12 months ago after it was announced and all the previews that MSFS was here to stay and was the real deal. 

I agree with you that criticism (just and evidence based) is the only way to achieve sound results for the bettermant of all involved. It could be debated whether MS/Asobo introduced the platform earlier than perhaps it should of. It could be debated whether the QA process was sped up unnecessarily particularly pertaining to this latest patch of which this thread is dedicated to. All valid. But I have seen this before in other platforms - t's not mutually exclusive to MS/Asobo.

And to be clear - I agree 100% with you regarding DX12. Would have been nice to have it in MSFS now. But that's in the past. It will be implemented into MSFS soon enough. 

But as far as I'm concerned - the overriding au-contraire is - why didn't LM introduce DX12 earlier than it did? Why haven't LM found a way to introduce the map technology that MS/Asobo have? Trailblazers are always open to heavier and often more unjust criticisms. And that is a historical fact.  I would not be surprised now to see all the other platforms now considering the possibility of utilizing the same or similar tech that Asobo/MS have introduced. Needless to say, I see non-flightsim games ie shooters, etc and a host of other software companies jumping onto this tech. I cannot even begin to go into detail regarding how we in the military are now looking into this tech for various applications across all branches including tha VR/AR aspect. This new tech is, in a sense, the future. All thanks to MS/Asobo and their vision/commitment.

And we won;t be surprised to see government and private sector adopt the technology for use in civil sims by CAE and others.

This may clarify my stance, as I'm seeing a product with new innovation that has the capacity to seep through an almost endless myriad of applications ranging from civil to military and well beyond.

Edited September 21, 2020 by XCLTM3

[Adrian123 1,015]

Just now, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Actually the weather in xplane is very complex. I think what you’re referring to is the visual representation of it....

Not without ADD ONS.IMO!

[HiFlyer 9,359]

1 minute ago, Drumcode said:

I was expecting the weather to be working in retail yes, everyone and their mother in alpha was reporting this since MARCH!

Spoiler alert, the weather is still hosed.

I was hoping that many things might be solved, but also realized that due to various unknown technical difficulties, there might be hiccups. After a few decades with our legacy sims. I a more than familiar with such bugs.

In honesty, I'm assuming its probably some sort of glitch in getting the data from meteoblue and transferring it correctly into the sim, live.

That error and difficulty could be coming from glitches from meteoblue, the MS Servers, or any combination.

Spoiler alert: Things happen.

[robert young 2,897]

3 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

What I do find interesting is the MSFS bias.  Any issues with P3D or XP and it was the "world is ending", "bad programmers", "old tech", "refund", "poor QA", "cartoonish", "stutters" etc. etc.  But when those same users of MSFS have the same type of issues (plenty of them from day 1 installation), the answer is "wait they'll fix it in time".  ......

Either way, for any flight simulator to get better, you have to accept it's problems, identify to the development team, hope they address them.  Telling people problems don't exist doesn't help ..

Well put Rob. But I'm not too worried about the bugs - though I think it is very poor show to make a major patch even worse than the release version - so much as inexplicable design decisions that strike me as not very bright. You can only marvel at nice scenery and clouds for so long until you look for some actual depth in the simulator experience and it simply is not there - nor does there seem to be much prospect that there will be much:

Like everyone else, I do enjoy travelling around and seeing the pretty landscapes and weather, but the rest of the experience is poor, and most of it is because of deliberate decisions that demonstrate a lack of awareness of what makes a simulator absorbing and complete.

 

 

Edited September 21, 2020 by robert young

[Drumcode 1,893]

1 minute ago, HiFlyer said:

I was hoping that many things might be solved, but also realized that due to various unknown technical difficulties, there might be hiccups. After a few decades with our legacy sims. I a more than familiar with such bugs.

In honesty, I'm assuming its probably some sort of glitch in getting the data from meteoblue and transferring it correctly into the sim, live.

That error and difficulty could be coming from glitches from meteoblue, the MS Servers, or any combination.

Spoiler alert: Things happen.

I am obviously still upset at many things. I am going to try and enjoy this thing until the next patch comes out and I can't fly again. 😉

[ChaoticBeauty 6,692]

1 hour ago, pmb said:

Nearly all German fora did "hang" it long before it's been released - including targeted false information - and keep doing so until now. As a result, I quit contributing to them long ago.

Sorry to hear that. It was quite disappointing to see people condemning the simulator without giving it a try just because Microsoft are the publisher.