CFI review of MSFS

[cckeating 1]

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by cckeating
Fix link

[sd_flyer 6,041]

I agree with reviewer. In my opinion MSFS has tremendous potential in the nearest future. As far XP11 I like it too, but to be technically correct x-plane 11 is no approved by FAA out of the box and require significant modifications and investment to become BTD. For me personally, the biggest thing in MSFS is ability navigate and recognize landscape like in real world. That is out the box can be used as CFI's training aid  for pre solo and post solo students who are unfamiliar with a training area. For that no certification requires!

And also if anyone cares I'm CFI as well 🙂

[fogboundturtle 2,708]

basically, MSFS needs 3rd party aircraft. In other news, they sky is blue (except in the PNW)

[abrams_tank 7,410]

3 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

I agree with reviewer. In my opinion MSFS has tremendous potential in the nearest future. As far XP11 I like it too, but to be technically correct x-plane 11 is no approved by FAA out of the box and require significant modifications and investment to become BTD. For me personally, the biggest thing in MSFS is ability navigate and recognize landscape like in real world. That is out the box can be used as CFI's training aid  for pre solo and post solo students who are unfamiliar with a training area. For that no certification requires!

And also if anyone cares I'm CFI as well 🙂

Are you officially allowed to use MSFS 2020 as a training tool for student pilots?  Or is this "unofficial" and the instructor is allowed to use whatever tools he/she deems will be useful for the student?

[RichieFly 728]

I care, sd_flyer.

I'm a CFI/CFII too although it's been many years since my last student.

We are a band of brothers/sisters. We have seen things that no one should ever see. We have experienced the heights of exhilaration and the depths of severe disappointment. How many times have we said "fly here, do this"?

Kidding aside, I think those who made their way in aviation through the trials of flight instruction deserve a tip of the cap.

[sd_flyer 6,041]

2 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Are you officially allowed to use MSFS 2020 as a training tool for student pilots?  Or is this "unofficial" and the instructor is allowed to use whatever tools he/she deems will be useful for the student?

There are training aids which can consist of internet resources, animation, videos and etc to demonstrate student different concepts. There is nothing official or unofficial about them as long they convey correct information.

When people talk about FAA approves sim it means that student or pilot who is using them can officially log their time for certification or currency. But also it doesn't mean if sim is not certified  cannot be used for either goal without logging time. After all, one can sit on the chair and practice "armchair flying" and chair doesn't have to be certified for that! 

[tweekz 2,165]

12 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

For me personally, the biggest thing in MSFS is ability navigate and recognize landscape like in real world. That is out the box can be used as CFI's training aid  for pre solo and post solo students who are unfamiliar with a training area. For that no certification requires!

Finally someone who points that out.

To me, the biggest benefit of a home sim in regards to real world flying, is to practise flights I want to do IRL! How to actually fly an aircraft is something you should learn in the actual aircraft!

Of course I like XP for its flight dynamics. But to be fair, the fundamental flight dynamics of MSFS look promising as well + weather actually seems to play a role (despite being overdone).

[sd_flyer 6,041]

4 minutes ago, RichieFly said:

I care, sd_flyer.

I'm a CFI/CFII too although it's been many years since my last student.

We are a band of brothers/sisters. We have seen things that no one should ever see. We have experienced the heights of exhilaration and the depths of severe disappointment. How many times have we said "fly here, do this"?

Kidding aside, I think those who made their way in aviation through the trials of flight instruction deserve a tip of the cap.

Yes! If you can fly airplane thank your simulator, if you can land it without wheel shimmy  or blown oleo strut seal thank your flight instructor LOL

[abrams_tank 7,410]

4 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

There are training aids which can consist of internet resources, animation, videos and etc to demonstrate student different concepts. There is nothing official or unofficial about them as long they convey correct information.

When people talk about FAA approves sim it means that student or pilot who is using them can officially log their time for certification or currency. But also it doesn't mean if sim is not certified  cannot be used for either goal without logging time. After all, one can sit on the chair and practice "armchair flying" and chair doesn't have to be certified for that! 

Cool!  I've heard a lot of positive feedback about the GA planes, including how realistic they perform and behave in MSFS 2020 from real life GA pilots.  The comments from real life GA pilots that fly the Cessna 152 and Cessna 172 say these two planes in particular perform quite well in MSFS 2020 compared to the real life planes.  I plan to go for a student permit or maybe PPL one day so I am practicing with GA planes (like the 152 and 172) in preparation for flight school one day (I assume many flight schools use the 152 and 172 to train students?).

[sd_flyer 6,041]

1 minute ago, tweekz said:

Finally someone who points that out.

To me, the biggest benefit of a home sim in regards to real world flying, is to practise flights I want to do IRL! How to actually fly an aircraft is something you should learn in the actual aircraft!

Of course I like XP for its flight dynamics. But to be fair, the fundamental flight dynamics of MSFS look promising as well + weather actually seems to play a role (despite being overdone).

Precisely! Back in days when I was student pilot I used  FS2004 and FSX for cross country planing and flew them prior real flight! And it helped a lot even with those sim limitations at the time.

Even those approved ATD I used for my commercial multiengine add on flight dynamics wasn't close to real counterpart, but it had real cockpit and instructor station.. So.... We must be happy with what we have! 🙂

[tweekz 2,165]

1 minute ago, sd_flyer said:

ven those approved ATD I used for my commercial multiengine add on flight dynamics wasn't close to real counterpart, but it had real cockpit and instructor station.. So.... We must be happy with what we have! 🙂

Yeah and to be fair - you can get a basic feel of flying with sims, but that's also possible with FSX. I remember that my FI was impressed that everything came quite natural to me in my first lessons. But soon he mentioned that I should get rid of my "simming disease". That's being too nervous on the stick. 😄

[sd_flyer 6,041]

3 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Cool!  I've heard a lot of positive feedback about the GA planes, including how realistic they perform and behave in MSFS 2020 from real life GA pilots.  The comments from real life GA pilots that fly the Cessna 152 and Cessna 172 say these two planes in particular perform quite well in MSFS 2020 compared to the real life planes.  I plan to go for a student permit or maybe PPL one day so I am practicing with GA planes (like the 152 and 172) in preparation for flight school one day (I assume many flight schools use the 152 and 172 to train students?).

Hang on there. I've been flying close to 20 years now. And just about now I'm kind of figure out how to fly 172! Now it may sound silly but trust me it's not! Being GA pilot doesn't give immunity of being proficient or competent. Even CFI opinions sometimes vary !   And it's ok

Here is the list of all airplanes I ever logged time in

American Champion: 7GCAA, 8KCAB Beechcraft: BE24, BE76, BE35-C33, BE35 Cessna: C150, C152, C172B/N/P/R/SP, 182F Mooney: M20E,M20C, M20J North American: AT6 Piper: PA28-140,PA28-151, PA28-161,PA28-181,PA28RT-201,PA28R-180/201T, PA24-250, PA32-300R, PA44 Rockwell: AC114   Cirrus: SR22

Yet I'm still learning everyday something new about 172! So there 🙂

[Chock 17,769]

29 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Are you officially allowed to use MSFS 2020 as a training tool for student pilots?  Or is this "unofficial" and the instructor is allowed to use whatever tools he/she deems will be useful for the student?

Probably the most useful things you can ever have to hand when you teach people, is the right words spoken plainly and clearly, combined with a flip pad and some big felt-tip pens. Not forgetting using your ears to listen to how confident the student's reply is after your demonstrated something, then you ask: 'Got it?'

I was taught how to fly a circuit by having a book placed on the floor in the middle of a large room to represent the distant airfield, and then had to move around it to the various correct sight pictures to learn the view angles. Worked a treat. You could do the same thing in FS95 if you wanted to. Fancy graphics are a bonus, but they aren't vital.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Chock

[tweekz 2,165]

3 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

Hang on there. I've been flying close to 20 years now. And just about now I'm kind of figure out how to fly 172!

You're never done learning! It's a sign of intelligence to acknowledge you're not perfect.

[cwburnett 1,809]

18 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

When people talk about FAA approves sim it means that student or pilot who is using them can officially log their time for certification or currency. But also it doesn't mean if sim is not certified  cannot be used for either goal without logging time. After all, one can sit on the chair and practice "armchair flying" and chair doesn't have to be certified for that! 

Couldn't agree more. Back when I did my instrument rating, P3D actually saved me maybe thousands of dollars of time in the ATD and real plane, because so much of it is practicing the scan, following the needles, reading the charts and thinking ahead. It was easy for me to spend 20 hours for a week practicing hold entries, procedure turns, intercepts, precision and non precision approach procedures. It was easy to kill an instrument and practice partial panel. Just made my time in the real plane much more productive...

Then for my multi, and even after to stay proficient, practicing engine out procedures - identify, verify, feather - was a great help. Much easier to build that muscle memory doing it 100 times on a sim than trying to do that on a real plane at several hundred dollars an hour for an instructor + plane + fuel.

MSFS can already fill that role as well as any prior sim, with the added benefits you've described. I've often used the sim to 'prep' for a flight into an unfamiliar area. When I took the plane to Alaska to fly around for a week, it was nice to preview some of the terrain and non-standard patterns in advance - now it can be done in much greater detail to much better effect.