Why gaming has changed

[Geofa 108]

I remember being 24 and subscribing to Compute-spending all day typing in a program-a word processor-then being amazed the printer responded and actually could print italics..Good post Cody-and sadly true. Sounds like you need a little multiplayer and a vodka and tonic...my medicine lately.. :-lolhttp://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

[newtie 533]

Hey Cody-Nice post and a sign of the times. I'm a flight simmer and a middle school teacher as well. I can tell you with a high degree of certainty that what you're saying is true, however, you haven't seen nothin' until you've followed me aound for a single day. Retail sales is a cakewalk... :>)Mr. Mark

[Guest Valkyrie321]

You are probably right, which is quite sad. Sadly, I also wouldn't make a post like this in many other forums, including the ones I moderate for fear of the backlash. Perhaps I may be just another ripple in the pool, but honestly I believe not only is it a sign of our times, but I think we as citizens need to stand up to such things.I was so very shocked that nobody else in the store bothered to say anything to the man and allowed us workers to get yelled at. In all honesty if I was on the other end of the sales desk I would have said my piece to the irate man... not only to quell my own peace of mind, but to stand up to this junk in our society. We have become pacifists, and it bothers me.Anyways, perhaps another debate for another time. I thank you all kindly for your words. I hope that those of you that read it take a little time out and think about what I said before you become stern with someone just doing their best to do their job. No point in shooting the middle man, we are all just trying to put bread on the table.

[crvm 0]

Sorry to play devil's advocate but that IS the nature of your position, something you either deal with or get another profession. People are people and unlike what some may think have always been this way and most likely always will. You are not really talking about gamers but PEOPLE who also happen to play games - whether they be fathers, brothers or sisters. PEOPLE, that is, SOME people are rude and childish and impatient. It is not something "new" even if your experience might reflect somewhat in regards to your argument. I work in the security industry and deal with folks who balk at me asking for some form of ID to enter a building housing one of the Israeli consulate offices. I could let people like this get to me or I could just do what I am paid to do and deal with it, I choose to be in control and no longer let such people bother me or I could NOT do my job. At the end of the day I get paid to perform a function that also involves dealing with the occasional jerk of the planet, and in this I see that I am certainly not alone. If your job asks you to listen to such folks who curse-cry-complain at you for the sake of "customer service" then perhaps looking for another job is not such a bad idea for you or you can deal with it. In the end I would never let such people dictate my profession or choices. Best,Randy J. Smith<<>>

[Guest Valkyrie321]

It wasn't a complaint Randy. I have been doing retail for over 6 years, separated by 6 years active duty military. To be blunt, there is also a large difference between doing security (in which you hold the chips, badge and restraining devices) and being a customer service representative (where the customer is always right.) I have been in many worse situations (namely the military) but even at that, it does not excuse and I refuse to excuse these people's behavior. Currently and most unfortunately I am inbetween jobs and trying to make ends meet, that means doing what I have to do to get things done. What disturbs me most is that people ALLOW others to act in this way, watch the situation unfold and then continue shopping like nothing happened.I tell you what though, to a kid just trying to get work experience or working a job while they go to college, these reps are surely not getting paid enough to be treated like scum. If I had of been the owner of that store, in a personal franchise I would have tossed that man out of my store in his ear, but then lawyers and insurance get in the way...Like I said, different debate, but I think as a society we really should not put up with that junk. I also strongly believe that while there may have been a few bad eggs years ago, the disease is spreading. Before I left for the military I NEVER had to deal with such rude customers.*shrugs*I guess I am just an old hat living in a new society. I will never understand or condone those acts, but my hand is forced at this time.Becoming a small business owner is beginning to like it might have its benefits....

[Orlaam 306]

You think you got problems, I work for a debt collection attorney. I was told I'd be sued for slander today because this woman was mad about a check we sent to her for her overpaid judgment. Crazy! She was cussing like crazy, so I said "Lady, what do what me to do? Yelling isn't going to make the check get their any faster". That was it! She wanted to sue me for slander, LOL

[Guest rmce]

Matt,OOOOhh I forgot I did that!Also Sinclair Spectrum!I recall typing in Asteroids in C64.What we were doing was learning to 'talk' computer, so we talked the talk with others at computer clubs etc.Nerds we were (and still are) but boy, were we right! The computers were the future!So, when we Fs, we have a background of being able to 'talk the talk' to our Fs with tweaks and the 'fun'(???) of getting it as we want it. We have no fear! We know that if we break it, we can fix it.Th ecomouter say sit cannot do something...we say "Oh Yeah? You think?", we then make it do what it was impossible to do!So, we learned a valuable lessons that still holds today....computers are stupid! Indeed, like adolescent boys, they know nothing! They can do a lot, run fast, read fast, throw and catch a ball, but really know nothing.I detect a great deal of adolescent sentence structure (I am a teacher) in the flame posts that hit this forum and others. I would hypothesise, that many flame wars are started by these kids for the #### of it!Yeah, I was amazed that women talked to me, and astounded that one married me!Great post, good topic!

[Guest jboweruk]

I know where you're coming from there Cody, I work for a PC manufacturer here in the UK, started 8 years ago in our production area, building them. Now I'm in Customer services for the last 3 years, and I know exactly about people being mean. We give a 1 year warranty on our PC's, and if something goes wrong within that time people start demanding refunds, no matter how hard you explain that the reason we give a one year on electrical goods is because anything that is going to go wrong will probably do so within the 1st year. We also try to explain that the item will not be 'repaired' as such but the part that went wrong is replaced, you can't repair a motherboard anymore it's just not economical.But no they stamp and scream and threaten to go to a lawyer or the Citizens Advice or Trading Standards or whatever. Thankfully if they throw a few f's into us we are under instruction to terminate the call, as long as we warn them first.I've actually been told by a lady I work with I'm 'too nice'. Too nice? What the #### does that mean? I was brought up to be a gentleman, to treat people with respect, especially women. The world has changed, for the worse. I have to say this and it hurts to think this way but if Armageddon happened tomorrow I could care less, as long as it's only the human race affected. And why do I feel that way? Because I've watched the world go so far downhill. It's right that it's not just gaming, it's everything. I can remember a time when if somebody was in trouble, somebody would stop and help. As a child I had a panic attack on some stairs in a museum, and a gentleman started talking to me until I got down the stairs (I'd got stuck at the top). You couldn't do that now, you'd be accused of being a peado, what has the world come to?

[Guest Bambi]

Bad customer behavior seems to be rampant in all forms of retail. My son works in a hat store in the mall and some of the stories he returns home with are incredulous regarding the out-and-out venom that some people feel obliged to spew on a regular basis.He has had to have mall security physically eject two people from the store.People have no personal restraints on their public behavior these days and are not in the least bit ashamed by berating and cursing at some poor clerk behind the cash register. People seem to feel that whatever their behavior, their particular circumstances justify it regardless of any pretense of civil behavior.The anonymity of the Internet has now bled over into face-to-face interactions, in my humble opinion.I was in one of our local EBgames last weekend and was depressed when remembering the glory days of PC gaming when PC games ruled the shelf space. Today, they are barely a half-a-section compared to the inventory of the entire store. Maybe I'm just getting old and the world is moving on without me.......

[Guest Valkyrie321]

Yeah, our GameStop has a small row of games for PCs, it can not take up more than perhaps 1/40th of the stock located throughout the store in total. With that said, I have YET to walk into a Fred Meyers or WalMart that didn't have a huge stock of PC video games!

[Guest SilverCircle]

>It didn't really hit me until later tonight. The gaming>industry and the people who are customers in it has changed. I>remember in the old DOS days when any tidbit of information>was shared throughout the community. We were all geeks>together, and we cared for each other. "I have to wait a day?>Aww shucks... can't rush perfection I guess. See you tomorrow>with money in hand." These values no longer hold true anymore.>It is amazing to me that customers can become irate babies,>cussing and stomping their feet like children in a playground>that don't get their sucker, or a chance on the teeter totter.>These people are "supposed" to be adults.Yeah, that's exactly what I'am thinking, so here is just a small story I want to share and because a lot of people here aren't exactly kids anymore, maybe someone can remember similar things from the "old days"...I can remember that one single computer store back in the early 90s. Back these days, such stores were extremely rare over here (in europe), even in a big city like the one I'am talking about. Later, more and more appeared, but today, most of them are gone again.The big electronic stores didn't care much about gamers and maybe had a few mainstream titles on stock, but that was about all you could expect from them.That small store I'am talking about was owned and managed by a young couple - he was caring about all the technical stuff, she was doing her job in the store itself, caring about customers. Both were highly motivated to satisfy their (few) customers and visiting them was always a pleasure. Often, we were talking long times about gaming and computers in general, sometimes even about completely unrelated things. Other customers came in and joined the talk, the girl was serving coffee and all that really felt like a very nice community. The atmosphere was always very friendly, and I cannot remember of any event when some customer got angry, because she had to tell him "sorry, not right now - we do our best to get it on stock, but it could take another few days...". It was normal, and people were staying calm, just asking "could you please put one copy for me aside and give me a call when it finally arrives?" and things like that.I bought a lot of games there (including classics like the Wing commander series or early flight simulations like Strike Eagle or Falcon 3.0). Of course, prices were somewhat higher, because they simply couldn't afford to sell stuff with (almost) no profit - the number of copies they sold weren't exactly high. But that was ok - I never ever thought about visiting one of the big and "cold" electronic stores just to save a few % of money.Yes, they were geeks (like we all were 15 years ago, when PC gaming wasn't something you can find everywhere).Sadly, they had to close their small store in the mid 90s when they were no longer able to compete with the large electronic stores which, by then, had realized that selling PC games can be a good way to make money.When I learned they had to close, I felt sad, because I realized that a part of this hobby would vanish with them.

[Guest robains]

In some ways I agree with you, but over the years I've endured much that is mediocrity at Microsoft so my view is slanted to what I've been exposed to -- I'm a software engineer and have used many of Microsoft's development tools (some of which I hope to never see again) over the past 20+ years. While using Microsoft's dev tools, I've spent WAY too much time doing R&D on bugs or as MS would say "by design" that has caused numerous delays in the software I produce and sell to customer. If the tools that are used to produce the software aren't solid, then coming up with solid software for customer's is defintely a challenge.As with all software, the more complex a product, the more testing it will need. Unfortunately the "testing" process has either become cost prohibitive or the profit plan does not include such an expense. This is where many of the issues live in FSX.But from the consumer's perspective:1. Supposed to be entertainment2. It cost $70 for deluxe3. Software should progress and not require "tweaking" to make it work well4. Hardware has progressed, software isn't progressing with itWith that said, I'm hoping the aces dev team do the right thing and get a patch/fix out ASAP (before the "Vista" version is released).Rob.

[Guest Valkyrie321]

Interesting you say that Rob. I am enjoying FSX more than any other version of the MSFS series. Everyone is entitled to their opinion however, I just don't agree with you. I easily got my $70 worth and paid full price for the deluxe version.As for "tweaking," as I have said I have tweaked game after game to make them run well. The FS series most assuredly has been tweaked since my first attempt to take off from Chicago's airports in FS5. Part of being a computer gamer is learning how to make your computer run the programs you wish to run well... that involves tweaking. It has ALWAYS been that way as long as I can remember, and I doubt it will change in the future. The more we try to change things, the more they are exactly the same.I also don't personally think that the level of quality assurance we all want for our games can now be achieved to some extent. A program like FSX has thousands of airports, thousands of locals, roads, waterways etc. Simply put, there is ALWAYS going to be issues with a game of this magnitude, especially since the complexity of our current software compared to the older versions of the simulation series have been multiplied beyond our wildest dreams... We actually EXPECT MSFS to render small lakes and roads in remote areas where we live!I have seen game launches reach much more success than MSFS while at the same time containing many more bugs and issues which NEVER got addressed. If anyone here is familiar with Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter, you know what I mean. It doesn't mean we should allow mediocricy, but we should also understand what the overall goal of a product like we use is accomplishing. My FSX folder is 12.9 GB large... name another game outside of FS that comes close to the amount of information stored and retrieved. I can think of none.