The Future of Air Travel.

[martin-w 3,234]

1 hour ago, Gary1124 said:

I think too much a-do is made of carbon dioxide. There is a sizable contingent of researchers who say the warming effect is overrated. 

 

No there isn't a sizable contingent of researchers. Unless you mean those with zero qualifications in climatology who are funded by the fossil fuel industry. The people qualified to know, climatologists, who aren't funded by the fossil fuel industry, all agree. 

Its basic chemistry. We have understood the greenhouse effect since the 18th century. 

 

All of this has been debated in this thread. Go back and read my previous replies, or we will just end up repeating what's already been dealt with. 

Edited October 6, 2020 by martin-w

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

Sizable is a great word. I guess in this context it means maybe 5 or 10.

[Murmur 3,941]

7 hours ago, Gary1124 said:

I think too much a-do is made of carbon dioxide. There is a sizable contingent of researchers who say the warming effect is overrated. 

Discussion is futile in threads like these. You won't change their minds. Just bookmark it so that you can quote the claims they make 10 or 20 or 30 years from now. 😉

[martin-w 3,234]

It is true that a deniers mind will never be changed, even if you provide evidence. The reason I bother is because there will be people observing who are on the fence, and I feel its right to point out misrepresentation of the science. And who is responsible for propagating it. And why! Its too important not to.

Its getting less important though. Now people are seeing droughts, flooding wildfires, melting sea ice, they are getting the message. Even if some of those individual events aren't necessarily human induced.

[HighBypass 2,339]

19 minutes ago, martin-w said:

Even if some of those individual events aren't necessarily human induced.

At least it is heartening to see that the human race cannot be blamed for everything. I feel that life, on a planetary scale, will continue, even if humans do not.

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

I agree. I'm counting on COVID-19, cockroaches and Norway rats to carry on after we're gone.

[martin-w 3,234]

3 hours ago, HighBypass said:

At least it is heartening to see that the human race cannot be blamed for everything. I feel that life, on a planetary scale, will continue, even if humans do not.

 

Yep. Its dificult to look at an individual event and definitivly say its caused by human emisions. What you can say though is that in a warming world extreme events are more common.

Global energy increase is a better way of thinking about it. That energy has to go somewhere. Extreme events are the result.

[LHookins 3,102]

I'm posting this link for entertainment purposes only.  It is up to the individual to decide what is valid and what is not.

http://www.petitionproject.org/index.php

Interesting that the example they display is Edward Teller.

Hook

[WingZ 547]

Noteworthy that Edward Teller died at the ripe old age of 95, back in 2003.

22 hours ago, LHookins said:

It is up to the individual to decide what is valid and what is not.

A truly dangerous delegation.
Even as a joke, it is terrifying that stuff like this exists, and is allowed to continue to exist.

To get the joke you need to Google the organiser a little.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2020 by WingZ

[LHookins 3,102]

Google "who is sourcewatch".

Hook

[WingZ 547]

Yes. The joke, exactly.

Luckily the younger generation has wised up to the internet and what is to be found there.
Sadly, it has led to a new level of cynicism which leads to ever more divisiveness, depending on what thought bubble you inhabit.

[LHookins 3,102]

2 hours ago, WingZ said:

Sadly, it has led to a new level of cynicism

I'm not sure why that's sad unless people are only cynical about viewpoints that oppose theirs.  Heck, I'm cynical about everything.  It comes with age.

"Ninety percent of everything you've ever been taught to believe is a lie, typically perpetrated for the purposes of picking your pocket."

There are groups of people who believe it is perfectly acceptable to lie as long as it is for a good cause.  It all depends on who decides what is or is not a "good cause."

Cynical?  Damned right I am. 🙂 

Hook

 

[dave2013 1,123]

2 hours ago, LHookins said:

Google "who is sourcewatch".

Hook

You'll notice that the climate catastrophe/alarmist folks summarily declare any studies, facts, theories, etc. that refute or dare to question their dogma as "fossil fuel industry funded".  I wonder who funds their studies?  Perhaps governments who make many billions in tax revenue from carbon taxes, "green" energy companies, any business which stands to profit from the elimination of fossil fuels, professors and scientists whose research funding depends on promoting the climate alarmism?

Anyway, Sourcewatch is funded by the Center for Media and Democracy.  Well, media and democracy are good, so it follows that the center Center for Media and Democracy must be good as well, right?  They basically criticize the fossil fuel industry.

The following is from their web page:

*************************

SourceWatch is an online open-content collaborative effort, that is, a voluntary association of individuals and groups who are developing a common resource of human knowledge. The structure of the SourceWatch allows anyone with an Internet connection and World Wide Web browser to alter its content.

No formal peer review

Please be advised that nothing found here has necessarily been reviewed by professionals with the expertise required to provide you with complete, accurate or reliable information. That is not to say that you will not find valuable and accurate information in SourceWatch; much of the time you will. However, SourceWatch cannot guarantee the validity of the information found here. The content of any given article may recently have been changed, vandalized or altered by someone whose opinion does not correspond with the state of knowledge in the relevant fields. Our active community of editors uses tools such as the Special:Recentchanges and Special:Newpages feeds to monitor new and changing content. However, SourceWatch is not uniformly peer reviewed; while readers may correct errors or engage in casual review, they have no legal duty to do so and thus all information read here is without any implied warranty of fitness for any purpose or use whatsoever. Even articles that have been included in links from the Center for Media and Democracy's website may later have been edited inappropriately, just before you view them.

None of the authors, contributors, sponsors, administrators, sysops, or anyone else connected with SourceWatch in any way whatsoever can be responsible for the appearance of any inaccurate or libelous information or for your use of the information contained in or linked from these web pages.

***************************

Dave

Edited October 8, 2020 by dave2013

[LHookins 3,102]

3 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

I wonder who funds their studies?

Do not believe ANY study without additional research, and maybe not even then.

"It all depends on WHO is sponsoring the study. In other words no one wants to lose their research money so they better come up with the right favorable answer or they are ruined."

Hook

[martin-w 3,234]

9 hours ago, LHookins said:

Do not believe ANY study without additional research, and maybe not even then.

"It all depends on WHO is sponsoring the study. In other words no one wants to lose their research money so they better come up with the right favorable answer or they are ruined."

Hook

 

There's so much nonsense spoken about this. This scientists are in it for money garbage has been around for a couple of decades and debunked countless times.

"What really leads to more funding and a higher salary is a scientist’s ability to produce groundbreaking research, not confirming the consensus,"

Even fossil fuel companies agree that mankind is responsible for warming and the consequences severe. 

"From 1977 to 2014, 83 percent of the company’s peer-reviewed studies and 80 percent of its internal communications acknowledged that climate change is real and caused by humans, "

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/27/us/politics/climate-report-fact-check.html

 

Why Claiming climate scientists are in it for the money is absurd...

https://skepticalscience.com/absurd-claim-climate-scientists-in-it-for-the-money.html

 

Climate science is more than 150 years old and probably the most TESTED and confirmed area of modern science. Utterly bizarre to continue to deny its reality.

 

 

You'll notice that the climate catastrophe/alarmist folks summarily declare any studies, facts, theories, etc. that refute or dare to question their dogma as "fossil fuel industry funded"

Err.... because they are and can be definitively proven to be so. Obviously! And no, they aren't "facts" they are  misrepresentations of the science, mischaracterizations. And can be easily proven to be so.

 

Science isn't a buffet for gods sake. You don't get to pick and choose. The scientific method works and has given you almost everything you hold dear. Including the medical science that saves your life. You don't get to accept quantum physics when it gives you a fancy PC...and then reject the scientific method when it tells you something you don't like.

To suggest that climate scientists are all banding together and lying about the research to steal our taxes for their research, the entire multitude of climate scientists, is mindnumbingly dumb.

So what of other scientific fields, wouldnt they all be into the same con trick... but no, our entire society is replete with products created from their research.

Time for common sense, time to accept that global warming has been studied for heading towards 200 years now. Thanks to great scientists in the 18th century we KNOW CO2 impacts global tempreture. Its basic, its easy. 

Anyone who can't grasp the concept of a fossil fuel industry, whose product is under threat, whose livlihood, no existance, is threatened, funding deniers and conspiracy theorists in desperation, is short of the required number of neurons.

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by martin-w