Being part of building something vs tearing it down....

[SnowGoAK 7]

15 minutes ago, RobJC said:

I had an overclock on my GPU before the last patch that was working fine, and it doesn't now. I actually have 3 overclocks going (CPU, GPU, RAM) and I started with the GPU OC and that fixed it.  Not sure if you have anything like that going, but that is where I would start. Also, shut down MSI Afterburner and Process Lasso, if you have those running. 

I have an i7-8700K with 32GB of RAM and a RTX 2070 Super.  I haven't overclocked anything.  Running on the default High settings.  Ran great until the latest patch, now constant random CTD.  There doesn't appear to be any rhyme or reason to it.  I will be in the middle of a flight, then all of a sudden I am looking at my desktop.  Prior to the latest update, I was very positive and optimistic about the sim, but when you suddenly can't complete a flight, that optimism starts to fade fast.  I'm sure it will get fixed at some point, but in the mean time I am unable to enjoy my purchase.

[RobJC 2,069]

2 minutes ago, Sesquashtoo said:

Interesting viewpoint.  A person that tells his or her reasons why they feel they did not get the value for the money...or features that were promoted by speech, or represented by screenshots or produced videos...are haters...not ones blowing sunshine and rushing to place a bouquet into the dev's  reaching hands. 

Haters....

So...what is a Lover of this broken sim,....to you...Ralf...is that one that puts on a muzzle, or one that ONLY pumps Rah, Rah Dev's GO!   Or...one, that insulates themselves into a blissful silence, by making use of the ignore feature?  Creating a false world of like-mined Souls?  Everyone that pumps their hands into the air, while exclaiming, Rah! Rah!   Interesting post  Quite.  For myself, I never use the Ignore Feature...because I then rob myself of counterpoint, and conjecture...and do NOT want to create such a false screen of Yes People...and only see their posts and comments.   Interesting post, Ralf.

Cheers,

Ses

That is one viewpoint. Here is another. Today we have FSX, P3D and XP (before MSFS was released). When Microsoft left the scene we were basically left with a couple companies trying to work with decade old code, and we had a tiny team working on XP. I think it is reasonable to say that our hobby wasn't going anywhere fast. Sure there was progress, but when you compare it to the laundry list of advancements MSFS have made, as a hobby we were dying a slow death. There was very little innovation or momentum. And the market just wasn't big enough to bring sufficient new users into the mix to justify more development.

Then Microsoft drops a bomb and says...hey guys, you were the red headed step child for the last decade, but guess what? You are now the blonde with big cans and everyone wants to take you home. All of a sudden MSFS is making it into gaming benchmarks. This is the new Crysis. Can your hardware run it? The buzz around this sim and our hobby would have been unthinkable by even the most optimistic only two years ago. Literally our industry went from dead to the in thing overnight, and throw in xbox support and now we have a huge market that will attract 3rd party developers. Imagine the insane study level planes coming our way? This is the GOLDEN ERA of flight sims, and we are all in for some amazing simming in the coming years. This rewrites the book on our industry. It is really quite amazing. 

But then the promo videos led to the launch, and we hit a bit of turbulence. It wasn't a terrible launch, and none of us were expecting perfection. Asobo stumbled a bit. They bit off a little more than they could handle the first month. But they also delivered a word not allowed good product and made a lot of good design decisions. So when I step back and look at the big picture, i am more than enthusiastic. This is the platform that we have dreamed about, and it is actually happening right now. 

I am not saying that we should not express our opinions. Being constructive with criticism is fine, and very useful. But when people blow up every topic with negativity, demanding the QA team is fired, and saying that Asobo doesn't know what they are doing, and MS is just dumbing down the product for xbox users, I fail to see how that helps anyone. I also think that those same people are missing the point of this journey. Report the issues. Help make this sim the best it can be. But use the energy productively because we have all waited a very long time for this day, and lets all enjoy it to the fullest. Venting about this or that issue occasionally is fine, and I will do it too, but when every single thread becomes a bashing session I just think it is wrong, and it takes away from this period of time when we could be enjoying the ride. 

Whether we like it or not this sim is being built and it will be something special in a year, maybe two. Why be dragged kicking and screaming the whole way through it? Also, being positive and constructive is just a better way to live imo. Life is too short to be upset about stuff like this. 

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

27 minutes ago, RobJC said:

That is one viewpoint. Here is another. Today we have FSX, P3D and XP (before MSFS was released). When Microsoft left the scene we were basically left with a couple companies trying to work with decade old code, and we had a tiny team working on XP. I think it is reasonable to say that our hobby wasn't going anywhere fast. Sure there was progress, but when you compare it to the laundry list of advancements MSFS have made, as a hobby we were dying a slow death. There was very little innovation or momentum. And the market just wasn't big enough to bring sufficient new users into the mix to justify more development.

Then Microsoft drops a bomb and says...hey guys, you were the red headed step child for the last decade, but guess what? You are now the blonde with big cans and everyone wants to take you home. All of a sudden MSFS is making it into gaming benchmarks. This is the new Crysis. Can your hardware run it? The buzz around this sim and our hobby would have been unthinkable by even the most optimistic only two years ago. Literally our industry went from dead to the in thing overnight, and throw in xbox support and now we have a huge market that will attract 3rd party developers. Imagine the insane study level planes coming our way? This is the GOLDEN ERA of flight sims, and we are all in for some amazing simming in the coming years. This rewrites the book on our industry. It is really quite amazing. 

But then the promo videos led to the launch, and we hit a bit of turbulence. It wasn't a terrible launch, and none of us were expecting perfection. Asobo stumbled a bit. They bit off a little more than they could handle the first month. But they also delivered a word not allowed good product and made a lot of good design decisions. So when I step back and look at the big picture, i am more than enthusiastic. This is the platform that we have dreamed about, and it is actually happening right now. 

I am not saying that we should not express our opinions. Being constructive with criticism is fine, and very useful. But when people blow up every topic with negativity, demanding the QA team is fired, and saying that Asobo doesn't know what they are doing, and MS is just dumbing down the product for xbox users, I fail to see how that helps anyone. I also think that those same people are missing the point of this journey. Report the issues. Help make this sim the best it can be. But use the energy productively because we have all waited a very long time for this day, and lets all enjoy it to the fullest. Venting about this or that issue occasionally is fine, and I will do it too, but when every single thread becomes a bashing session I just think it is wrong, and it takes away from this period of time when we could be enjoying the ride. 

Whether we like it or not this sim is being built and it will be something special in a year, maybe two. Why be dragged kicking and screaming the whole way through it? Also, being positive and constructive is just a better way to live imo. Life is too short to be upset about stuff like this. 

Rob...I don't disagree with anything you have stated.  I also, understand the Human Condition.  I truly don't see a 'series' of posts, from any one forum member that keeps  bashing the shins of this sim.  What I do see...is that they might (he or she)  state the reasons that they are not happy with the current state of affairs...they state it...and then move on....suggesting ways to improve the sim...or go quiet...and just fly it, in the condition, or pop in, here or there.  I don't see anybody continuously downing....  Take myself as an example.  I was quite famous for just the opposite on the Orbx Forums as Orbx Flyer...in GUSHING about the up and coming release, to the point of gagging some with my enthusiasm.   I couldn't wait...and it arrived...and I was (yes..with some bugs becoming evident)  GOBSMAKCED by the new tech and delivery of real world scenery. THAT was the demarcation, the real world scenery and total world depiction...from the likes of the legacy sims.   

Then...I started to see, with each FORCED upon me, patch...either download it...or the sim stops working....no choice....a degradation in the very aspect of the sim that drove me into its arms...and for almost just under 200.00 dollars.   A month later...three depredating patches later...I came onto the forum...and vented.  I vocalized my extreme displeasure with what the patches had done to my usage and enjoyment of the sim...and that it broke it for me.  I vented.  Done.   Now...I made the choice not to run it as it is...but will see what 6 months to a year brings in coming patches...and whatever.  I have never said it was a P.O.S.  I stated...that I was so dismayed in what the post RTM patches have DONE to the sim......    Is that hating?  Or...is that one person's take on the way it is, right now?   I think the latter.   I hope that time, and coming patches, brings the sim to the visual level it was, at RTM. That is my hope.  Done...

Will I be tagged a vocal 'hater' for that?   Not my concern.  I feel, that it will be the tagger's problem, more than my own...

Cheers,

Hope the sim evolves and becomes outrageously successful ..but...in the mission, that made it so advanced, so different from the legacy sims.   SCENERY, scenery that doesn't evaporate with each forced patch.  The world of BlackShark RTM...and the Azure Cloud was awesome!  No other word to describe it.  Today, this evening, the current version is no longer that full, fat amazing visual of a world.  That...is the vent.  They said it was going to be fixed.  Future tense.  I will wait...and will watch that outcome.

Edited October 1, 2020 by Sesquashtoo

[Ricardo41 5,949]

6 hours ago, OHN767 said:

 we cant all have supercomputers

My PC is about as far away from a super computer as you can possibly get, without installing Windows Vista, and you don't see me running to this forum every 5 minutes with some supposed, complaint, or whatever. I have had surprisingly few bugs or issues, other than those related to my old PC. Secondly, my expectations were met, because I didn't expect a bug free launch. No AAA title nowadays launches without major issues that are then patched eventually. 

Finally, it's a game, people. It's fun and what not but it is not the be all and end all of your existence. Reading some of these posts, you would think the future of the universe is at stake. 

I take a Marie Kondo approach to this: Does MSFS 2020 "spark joy". The answer is: it definitely does. 

[ChrisDa 41]

I am really envious of you all here on the FS 2020 thread. At least you get a chance to comment on the good and the bad.

I got my boxed edition on the 7th of September and have not got wheels off the ground yet.

I bought the boxed edition because of my limited bandwidth and a capped download limit.

I have been a simmer since the 1980's and know my way around a computer, and successfully run P3D v4.5 with all the hot fixes and fly PDMG aircraft without a problem. Fortunately I keep up to date images of my operating system and file backups of my applications.  

Since I bought FS2020, I have reloaded Windows 10 Pro twice, not from an image but off a bootable USB drive.

I have the basics installed so I could try FS2020 and have had so many CTD, and system freeze ups, I have lost count. Fortunately I have been able to resort to doing my other work on another computer here in the Office. You can see my hardware setup in my signature.

A couple days ago, I thought I had this monster licked, buy no. In attempt to re start the application, I was met with a screen telling me the installation was corrupt and was going to down load the whole thing 120 + gb. This I let start at 3PM Monday afternoon and was still downloading at 6 AM Tuesday Morning and finished at 6:30.

Then, after a restart, it wants to down another 700 + mb in updates, then, after another restart, I'm up for another 76 mb download.

So now its Thursday again, I have a doctors appointment later in the morning, so early, before breakfast, I start the application and it all looks good but it tells me there is a free thing for Japan, so I tick all the boxes and it says there is another 2+ something GB to down load. 

So I let it run and off to the doctors I go. Back home at midday and the computer has done nothing but locked up. Only way out of this is to hit the reset button and again Windows won't boot ! Power the lot down and I get Windows to boot again, start FS2020 and gets underway for about 20 seconds and I'm looking at a black screen. Nothing happens.

I have restored my system from images and re boot. Up into Windows 10 no problem, get my emails etc., fire up P3D v4.5 ,  Perfect.  And that is where it stays.

I think I will return this thing and get my money back.

My wife tells me, it is like having a brand new Cadillac flat bedded out to the house and after 3 odd weeks, it still wont start.

Chris,

Sorry for the rant, but I am PI$$ed off.

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

53 minutes ago, ChrisDa said:

I am really envious of you all here on the FS 2020 thread. At least you get a chance to comment on the good and the bad.

I got my boxed edition on the 7th of September and have not got wheels off the ground yet.

I bought the boxed edition because of my limited bandwidth and a capped download limit.

I have been a simmer since the 1980's and know my way around a computer, and successfully run P3D v4.5 with all the hot fixes and fly PDMG aircraft without a problem. Fortunately I keep up to date images of my operating system and file backups of my applications.  

Since I bought FS2020, I have reloaded Windows 10 Pro twice, not from an image but off a bootable USB drive.

I have the basics installed so I could try FS2020 and have had so many CTD, and system freeze ups, I have lost count. Fortunately I have been able to resort to doing my other work on another computer here in the Office. You can see my hardware setup in my signature.

A couple days ago, I thought I had this monster licked, buy no. In attempt to re start the application, I was met with a screen telling me the installation was corrupt and was going to down load the whole thing 120 + gb. This I let start at 3PM Monday afternoon and was still downloading at 6 AM Tuesday Morning and finished at 6:30.

Then, after a restart, it wants to down another 700 + mb in updates, then, after another restart, I'm up for another 76 mb download.

So now its Thursday again, I have a doctors appointment later in the morning, so early, before breakfast, I start the application and it all looks good but it tells me there is a free thing for Japan, so I tick all the boxes and it says there is another 2+ something GB to down load. 

So I let it run and off to the doctors I go. Back home at midday and the computer has done nothing but locked up. Only way out of this is to hit the reset button and again Windows won't boot ! Power the lot down and I get Windows to boot again, start FS2020 and gets underway for about 20 seconds and I'm looking at a black screen. Nothing happens.

I have restored my system from images and re boot. Up into Windows 10 no problem, get my emails etc., fire up P3D v4.5 ,  Perfect.  And that is where it stays.

I think I will return this thing and get my money back.

My wife tells me, it is like having a brand new Cadillac flat bedded out to the house and after 3 odd weeks, it still wont start.

Chris,

Sorry for the rant, but I am PI$$ed off.

Chris...I'd like you to try something...a prep of your system image...before you try and install MSFS again.

I'd like you to type COMMAND Prompt into the bottom left white search mask...and when it comes up...RIGHT CLICK on that link...and RUN AS ADMIN

After the black window comes up...I'd like you to follow exactly, and type exactly what you see below...each line command for DISM sub-routine, and let each command run its course.  These series of commands (2 through 6) will sniff/parse/examine your critical system files...and will download from the Microsoft Server, any files that it sees is corrupt on your system...and overwrite with a clean and non-corrupt system file. The last command will parse and examine your entire file system and report and correct any bad sectors and errors in that regard.  These commands, will give you a virgin and non-corrupted Windows Pro install, that now can be the stable base for installing MSFS  Make a copy of these commands and place them into a WORD file...for you to use, any time you wish to.  I have the exact set, and do this complete check up, once a month.  I have caught at least 12 times, files that have been corrupted by shutdown, start up.  voltage fluctuations....and it has saved the bacon, a few times.  

Here are the set of commands to be typed in EXACTLY as you see them...even the spaces within the commands:

 

Each line prompt (command) will run automatically, and you only need to let it finish its run...and then create (in the window) a report of that operation. Do not disturb the operation after you have pressed ENTER. Each with finish and TELL you that it has. Then, move onto the next command prompt in the series.

1) Open administrative command prompt and type or copy and paste:

2) sfc /scannow
3) dism /online /cleanup-image /scanhealth
4) dism /online /cleanup-image /restorehealth
5) sfc /scannow
6) chkdsk /scan

 

Lets see if that can help you and get you going.  BTW...as soon as the last command (6) has run...and told you the outcome of the run...(in plain English),  I'd make another C drive back up image...for THAT ONE, will be a absolutely clean and corrupt free Windows 10 Pro...that you can call back, if need be.  Then...after you made the back up....proceed again, with trying to install MSFS from your disc set.  I think...(for my reasons that I won't print here...) that you will be successful.
 

Edited October 1, 2020 by Sesquashtoo

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,798]

1 hour ago, ChrisDa said:

I am really envious of you all here on the FS 2020 thread. At least you get a chance to comment on the good and the bad.

I got my boxed edition on the 7th of September and have not got wheels off the ground yet.

I bought the boxed edition because of my limited bandwidth and a capped download limit.

I have been a simmer since the 1980's and know my way around a computer, and successfully run P3D v4.5 with all the hot fixes and fly PDMG aircraft without a problem. Fortunately I keep up to date images of my operating system and file backups of my applications.  

Since I bought FS2020, I have reloaded Windows 10 Pro twice, not from an image but off a bootable USB drive.

I have the basics installed so I could try FS2020 and have had so many CTD, and system freeze ups, I have lost count. Fortunately I have been able to resort to doing my other work on another computer here in the Office. You can see my hardware setup in my signature.

A couple days ago, I thought I had this monster licked, buy no. In attempt to re start the application, I was met with a screen telling me the installation was corrupt and was going to down load the whole thing 120 + gb. This I let start at 3PM Monday afternoon and was still downloading at 6 AM Tuesday Morning and finished at 6:30.

Then, after a restart, it wants to down another 700 + mb in updates, then, after another restart, I'm up for another 76 mb download.

So now its Thursday again, I have a doctors appointment later in the morning, so early, before breakfast, I start the application and it all looks good but it tells me there is a free thing for Japan, so I tick all the boxes and it says there is another 2+ something GB to down load. 

So I let it run and off to the doctors I go. Back home at midday and the computer has done nothing but locked up. Only way out of this is to hit the reset button and again Windows won't boot ! Power the lot down and I get Windows to boot again, start FS2020 and gets underway for about 20 seconds and I'm looking at a black screen. Nothing happens.

I have restored my system from images and re boot. Up into Windows 10 no problem, get my emails etc., fire up P3D v4.5 ,  Perfect.  And that is where it stays.

I think I will return this thing and get my money back.

My wife tells me, it is like having a brand new Cadillac flat bedded out to the house and after 3 odd weeks, it still wont start.

Chris,

Sorry for the rant, but I am PI$$ed off.

To be totally honest this game is pretty much designed to run as as service so even if you got up and running over the dodgy Australian NBN (which I am told they recently announced they were going to fix by reverting to the oppositions original fibre to the house plan they previously lampooned as impractical? ...  go figure )  you may still have ongoing issues every time there is a patch.

However assuming you want a solution that is slightly more useful than "complain to your local member about your NBN" the only thing I can think of that might work on a poorish connection is install the game elsewhere on a PC with good internet and copy the entire game onto an external and bring it home and copy to your PC, run the installer and point it to where the game files were put. It should then just verify the install and continue with the install. Sadly though you might need to do this every time there is a major patch until your internet is fixed/upgrade.

[ILSFREAK 56]

Thanks Ses

Although I will never be able to run 2020, i will go to w 10 sometime, and  this is really VALUABLE  info

[ChrisDa 41]

Thanks Guys for the help.

I'll go ahead with Ses's suggestions and see how that turns out. I had run the System File Checker a week or so ago, and there were no errors.

Anyway, I don't want to hijack this thread so I think I should start a new one after I have played around some more and let you know how I get on.

Oh, and BTW, I said, right at the start, that the only way to go for the NBN was fiber to the home, Before I retired, I was working with fiber Optic communications between instrumentation in the oil industry and no one knew what the upper bandwidth of fiber was, only the bits of electronics stuck on each end.

Edited October 1, 2020 by ChrisDa
Typo

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

39 minutes ago, ILSFREAK said:

Thanks Ses

Although I will never be able to run 2020, i will go to w 10 sometime, and  this is really VALUABLE  info

Actually, this is not limited to only W10.  If you are on W7...give the commands a go....the  DISM system, looks up your windows version as the first thing it does...and then will use that to access the M.S. servers if it need to address anything found with your version. Don't be surprised, if it tells you that some of your System Files WERE in fact corrupted...and repaired them, automatically.  Back to the regularly scheduled program..lol

Edited October 1, 2020 by Sesquashtoo

[ILSFREAK 56]

ha  ha  Ses

You know, some things people can do with their eyes closed, for me i will rather ask my son to help me because i saved the page to show him

I am too afraid of screwing things up, as happened before

Looks easy enough , but still.......

Rather safe than without PC for a week

[dilore 126]

10 hours ago, RobJC said:

...If we choose to participate constructively by providing useful feedback to the developers, we are actually contributing to building this product. 

:

I don't want to look back in 6 months or a year (or more) and think that I somehow didn't help this product improve because I was too busy debating someone who hated the product or just wanted to tear it down for whatever reason.  

We all know this product has lots of bugs and missing features. That is not up for debate. The central question is...as adults...what are we going to do about it? ... are we going to help the team identify and reproduce the issues so they can fix them? 

:

And...what are you going to say about your own contribution to this product 6 months or a year from now? Did you help build MSFS up? Or did you help tear it down? 

 

I am very happy that I have not bought this product, paying for being an tester? Neh...

[RobJC 2,069]

9 hours ago, Sesquashtoo said:

Rob...I don't disagree with anything you have stated.  I also, understand the Human Condition.  I truly don't see a 'series' of posts, from any one forum member that keeps  bashing the shins of this sim.  What I do see...is that they might (he or she)  state the reasons that they are not happy with the current state of affairs...they state it...and then move on....suggesting ways to improve the sim...or go quiet...and just fly it, in the condition, or pop in, here or there.  I don't see anybody continuously downing....  Take myself as an example.  I was quite famous for just the opposite on the Orbx Forums as Orbx Flyer...in GUSHING about the up and coming release, to the point of gagging some with my enthusiasm.   I couldn't wait...and it arrived...and I was (yes..with some bugs becoming evident)  GOBSMAKCED by the new tech and delivery of real world scenery. THAT was the demarcation, the real world scenery and total world depiction...from the likes of the legacy sims.   

Then...I started to see, with each FORCED upon me, patch...either download it...or the sim stops working....no choice....a degradation in the very aspect of the sim that drove me into its arms...and for almost just under 200.00 dollars.   A month later...three depredating patches later...I came onto the forum...and vented.  I vocalized my extreme displeasure with what the patches had done to my usage and enjoyment of the sim...and that it broke it for me.  I vented.  Done.   Now...I made the choice not to run it as it is...but will see what 6 months to a year brings in coming patches...and whatever.  I have never said it was a P.O.S.  I stated...that I was so dismayed in what the post RTM patches have DONE to the sim......    Is that hating?  Or...is that one person's take on the way it is, right now?   I think the latter.   I hope that time, and coming patches, brings the sim to the visual level it was, at RTM. That is my hope.  Done...

Will I be tagged a vocal 'hater' for that?   Not my concern.  I feel, that it will be the tagger's problem, more than my own...

Cheers,

Hope the sim evolves and becomes outrageously successful ..but...in the mission, that made it so advanced, so different from the legacy sims.   SCENERY, scenery that doesn't evaporate with each forced patch.  The world of BlackShark RTM...and the Azure Cloud was awesome!  No other word to describe it.  Today, this evening, the current version is no longer that full, fat amazing visual of a world.  That...is the vent.  They said it was going to be fixed.  Future tense.  I will wait...and will watch that outcome.

I would be frustrated too, if that had happened. Not labeling you a hater btw. Not really labeling anyone a hater. Just not willing to devote attention to negative posts when there is work to be done. Hope you sort out your sim issues! 

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

19 minutes ago, RobJC said:

I would be frustrated too, if that had happened. Not labeling you a hater btw. Not really labeling anyone a hater. Just not willing to devote attention to negative posts when there is work to be done. Hope you sort out your sim issues! 

Forced updates and patches, dictates that it will be Asobo, that will have to sort out Its issues! 😉  I'm just along for the ride...lol!   I'm hoping things will be different a few months from now.

[overspeed3 410]

Where have all the thousands of volunteer testers gone?  Nowhere. They have morphed into Microsoft flight sim customers, and their numbers are now legion...