Running the sim in HDR?

[flyinion 280]

Just curious if what I see is a limitation of my new HDR400 capable monitor or the the way the sim itself handles HDR since I noticed at times it seems overly bright even without HDR.  I loaded up a flight in an area with scattered clouds somewhere between 11am-1pm.  The directly that the sun came from the clouds were super blown out.  Just wondering if this is the HDR400 monitor not being capable of going past about 450nits and it's just clipping everything or does it have the same effect on a true HDR display like if I had connected it to my LG OLED TV?  Outside of that and like for instance the text on the TBM's throttle quadrant (white lines around the red "override" thing to the left of the throttle handle etc) looking kinda like they were glowing I kinda liked it lol.  I mostly just turned it on out of curiosity and more than likely will just run it in non-HDR since HDR400 is obviously pretty limited.  Just wanted to see if the the blown out clouds around the sun or even directly 180 from it where it's shining on clouds behind you if you're facing it are normal HDR behavior for the sim or it's a hardware thing.

[aznricepuff 83]

I've been playing with an HDR1000 monitor for a while and have not seen issues with the sun blowing out clouds. In fact, when I toggle HDR on/off highlights are much less blown out. In external view I can have a super bright specular reflection from the sun right next to the TBM logo on the 930 and still clearly read the logo. In non-HDR half the airplane would be a fuzzy white mess.

The only time I've seen the image blown out is when I'm inside the cockpit with the interior taking up a significant portion of the screen and it's bright outside. In this case everything out the windshield gets semi-blown out. But this is a result of the game's automatic brightness adaptation and not HDR; the same effect is there with non-HDR mode.

[flyinion 280]

9 minutes ago, aznricepuff said:

I've been playing with an HDR1000 monitor for a while and have not seen issues with the sun blowing out clouds. In fact, when I toggle HDR on/off highlights are much less blown out. In external view I can have a super bright specular reflection from the sun right next to the TBM logo on the 930 and still clearly read the logo. In non-HDR half the airplane would be a fuzzy white mess.

The only time I've seen the image blown out is when I'm inside the cockpit with the interior taking up a significant portion of the screen and it's bright outside. In this case everything out the windshield gets semi-blown out. But this is a result of the game's automatic brightness adaptation and not HDR; the same effect is there with non-HDR mode.

Thanks, sounds like HDR400 is nowhere capable of being used then for sure.  The sun was completely blowing out stuff like that.  Oh well, I didn't really buy the monitor for that anyway, just figured I'd check and see how it looked.  I was more interested in the wide gamut and ultra-wide format over HDR.  I think MSFS is the only thing I even have that is HDR capable anyway as far as games.

[ChaoticBeauty 6,692]

Unfortunately 450 nits is rather inadequate for HDR, and it has become a horrible marketing trend that affects pretty much all the budget 4K TVs and displays nowadays. For a good HDR interpretation, you'll need a display that can push beyond 800 nits and with FALD technology. A display with HDR1000 certification should be good enough for HDR10, the HDR implementation that the simulator provides.

At least your display sounds like it provides a good enough tone mapping solution with its limitations in account, others can display very inaccurate colours and lose spatial detail when struggling with a true HDR signal due to a weak backlight.

[flyinion 280]

5 minutes ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

Unfortunately 450 nits is rather inadequate for HDR, and it has become a horrible marketing trend that affects pretty much all the budget 4K TVs and displays nowadays. For a good HDR interpretation, you'll need a display that can push beyond 800 nits and with FALD technology. A display with HDR1000 certification should be good enough for HDR10, the HDR implementation that the simulator provides.

At least your display sounds like it provides a good enough tone mapping solution with its limitations in account, others can display very inaccurate colours and lose spatial detail when struggling with a true HDR signal due to a weak backlight.

Yeah, I knew when I bought it the HDR wouldn't be great, but I wasn't really buying it for that.  I did figure I could mess around with it as a bonus perk though and see if it looked decent at all.  The monitor was sort of unplanned anyway as I needed to send my main off for RMA and couldn't live with a 24" 1080p single monitor while working from home.  I'd already been looking at this model anyway coincidentally though.  I was more interested in the ultra wide aspect ration with the wide gamut as a bonus.  Here's a couple pics of what the blow outs look like in sim.  This is 3pm time frame, one preset up from the lowest one that has clouds (don't think it was scattered, two presets above clear).  Also if you put the eyepoint more parallel with the ground it's much less pronounced, like if you were in the plane.  It's once you rotate up in drone or "spot" view that it starts blowing out even the horizon.  Similar to what happens in the cockpit no matter HDR or not when you look down at the instruments.

Sorry for the "rough" pictures.  I had to take it literally with my phone as Steam and Windows both couldn't capture the HDR at all.

 

 

[ChaoticBeauty 6,692]

I see what you mean. If the clouds appear more blown out compared to the SDR mode, it means that the HDR mode is trying to push even higher brightness. Sadly it means that in your case it would be preferable to stick with SDR mode, with a very expensive monitor or TV required for the full advantage of the HDR effect.

[flyinion 280]

6 minutes ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

I see what you mean. If the clouds appear more blown out compared to the SDR mode, it means that the HDR mode is trying to push even higher brightness. Sadly it means that in your case it would be preferable to stick with SDR mode, with a very expensive monitor or TV required for the full advantage of the HDR effect.

Yep, that's likely what will happen.  If I really want a good HDR experience I can just haul the system out to the living room and connect it to my OLED lol.

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,798]

I am using a HDR 400 monitor with a 2060 and the game seems fine on my system.

My only issue is remembering to disable HDR before recording a video. Screen shots seem OK but recorded videos have a pink/cyan tint and are over bright and washed out with HDR on.

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,798]

5 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

What are you using to record?

I have no problems recording HDR10 via my Elgato 4k HDR capture card (MarkII).

 

Just the generic geforce Nvidia capture. it may even have settings for HDR recording, no idea, I have not really put any time into it.

[flyinion 280]

1 hour ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

What are you using to record?

I have no problems recording HDR10 via my Elgato 4k HDR capture card (MarkII).

Does the HDR400 monitor need to be in a specific mode or have a specific port?   I have the LG C9 OLED and only needed to make a few minor adjustments with HDR enabled for use with MSFS HDR10 (fortunately settings are saved by mode HDR On/Off).  But in the real world of flight, clouds can get really bright hence why we wear sunglasses ... I guess it also depends on the aircraft and what sort of tint it may or may not have.  But agree with your picture, that just looks blown out rather than extended range.

Cheers, Rob.

Any mode except the sRGB emulation mode and HDR has to be enabled. Then just enabled in windows. The monitor is a 34GN850. I do agree with Glenn that overall it doesn’t actually look bad unless looking at the clouds in the sun etc

[Waldo Pepper 1,952]

Definitely hook it up to your OLED.  I'm using a 48" LG CX OLED as my desktop monitor,  the sim is jaw dropping at times.   Crisp, beautiful textures.   Gorgeous sunrise / sunsets.

Also,  there aren't many panels that can compete with an oled when it comes to displaying minute points of light on pitch black backgrounds,  like the stars.    I flew from Key West to Miami at night. It's insane how many stars there are at night in this sim,  more than I've ever seen in life.  I've never been in an area completely devoid of light pollution irl.      I started thinking about how wild it would be to replace the default world scenery with highly detailed terrain of our moon.

 

 

[BusheFlyer 87]

22 minutes ago, Waldo Pepper said:

Definitely hook it up to your OLED.  I'm using a 48" LG CX OLED as my desktop monitor,  the sim is jaw dropping at times.   Crisp, beautiful textures.   Gorgeous sunrise / sunsets.

Also,  there aren't many panels that can compete with an oled when it comes to displaying minute points of light on pitch black backgrounds,  like the stars.    I flew from Key West to Miami at night. It's insane how many stars there are at night in this sim,  more than I've ever seen in life.  I've never been in an area completely devoid of light pollution irl.      I started thinking about how wild it would be to replace the default world scenery with highly detailed terrain of our moon.

 

 

Your post brought a recollection to me, many many years ago I was lucky enough to be on a safari in South Africa, in the Kruger. Crystal clear and freezing cold night, not a single hint of light pollution. The milky way was so utterly overwhelming in the night sky, I couldn't believe what I was seeing. It is something every man should see at least once in their life, it is surreal and you get an appreciation for how religions came to be.

[RobJC 2,069]

I just tried HDR. Way too bright. 

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,798]

1 minute ago, RobJC said:

I just tried HDR. Way too bright. 

I am just HDR 400 which might be the difference. Is yours HDR10 by any chance ?

Given that HDR10 is designed originally for TV screens half a room away, I have often wondered if there are issues with 1000 nit HDR10 on a screen that is right in your face 😄

 

[MrFuzzy 2,118]

I have an HDR600 monitor that I bought 2 years ago and tried HDR with many games. At least for my monitor (Samsung C27HG70) the conclusion is always that it's a matter of taste: personally I don't like it much, it looks like the entire image is dimmed down in order to highlight a few occasional super-bright spots on the screen. Moreover I have the impression that the input lag / pixel response is higher when I turn HDR on.

Nowadays I give it a try when I install a new game that supports it, but eventually I always keep it disabled.