Pilot ‘lied about qualifications to land job with B.A

[Jude Bradley 637]

https://metro.co.uk/2020/10/06/pilot-lied-about-qualifications-to-land-job-with-british-airways-13381661/

X-Plane or P3D? 

 

 

[n4gix 4,862]

This mentally deficient idiot didn't think his "records" would be actually checked? 

[Chock 17,761]

1 hour ago, n4gix said:

This mentally deficient word not allowed didn't think his "records" would be actually checked? 

Depends on the country, as we've seen, there were apparently a lot of PIA pilots who had done the same thing and managed to get on the flight line. Part of it is cultural too; in some countries it's not deemed entirely inappropriate to suggest 'greasing the wheels' a bit with a bribe.

As far as I'm aware however, the CAA is not such an organisation which would tolerate it. I'm pretty sure in the UK, they take your logbook as being a legal declaration, so if you blag some bogus time in a GA aeroplane, whilst it'd be difficult to actually prove it was false if it wasn't an excessive amount, or at least fairly easy to fake it, it is taken very seriously if you do so and get found out. And of course if you do get found out, it's definitely fraud. Not only that, it could probably be classed as reckless endangerment too, if you were trying to get a job flying aeroplanes based on false documentation.

It's also a pretty suicidal and stupid thing to do even if you get away with it, although one suspects you'd get found out by a check pilot in pretty short order if you were umming and aahing about things you should know. Hopefully he'll find that in addition to his fraudulent logbook being quite damaging, the statute book will also be quite painful when they throw it at him.

[Ted Striker 324]

The entire airline industry is hurting due to a fear of catching covid from flying and this news does not help matters. I would not expect the CAA to go easy on this chap and instead make an example of him to firmly discourage this activity.

Ted

[vc10man 732]

1 hour ago, Chock said:

Depends on the country, as we've seen, there were apparently a lot of PIA pilots

A few years ago, I had posted how a rich Indian man's daughter also faked her way to the flightdeck of a now-defunct Jet Airways 737-800 till she tried to land with all three undercarriage bogeys at the same time and buckled the nose wheel which was what exposed her sham

[HighBypass 2,338]

The real question is IMO: Did he manage to get any actual stick time...  I would like to think not....

[Chock 17,761]

30 minutes ago, HighBypass said:

The real question is IMO: Did he manage to get any actual stick time...  I would like to think not....

Nah, the real question is, would he manage to fool Deirdre Barlow? 🤣

Edited October 7, 2020 by Chock

[ahsmatt7 1,147]

How is this any worse or different then literally lying on a job application? This is all he did. Getting prosecuted? I think that’s a little over zealous. 
 

the airline hires him and puts him in class, then during class they verify his records, it comes out that he’s a fraud....the airline fires him. 
 

of course, I’m not justifying what the dude did....he’s a loser at best. However, if laying on a job application is a crime....holy hell....

[Chock 17,761]

1 minute ago, ahsmatt7 said:

How is this any worse or different then literally lying on a job application? This is all he did. Getting prosecuted? I think that’s a little over zealous. 
 

the airline hires him and puts him in class, then during class they verify his records, it comes out that he’s a fraud....the airline fires him. 
 

of course, I’m not justifying what the dude did....he’s a loser at best. However, if laying on a job application is a crime....holy hell....

Because if you lie on your application to be a shoe salesman, the worst you could do is sell someone some awful-looking shoes, which might alert the fashion police, but it's unlikely to alert the real police. However, if you lie on your application to be an airline pilot and somehow make it into the cockpit, the consequences are potentially deadly.

Having said that, from a more technical standpoint, being that they are ports of entry, in the UK (probably elsewhere too), British airports are under the not very kindly and extremely unforgiving auspices of the UK's Maritime Laws, rather than the regular laws you are under when in a city or town in Britain. So if you went to a BA interview at an airport and tried to blag them, you'd have been committing fraud whilst at a place where the rules are far more strict and the penalties much more extreme.

I've observed people find that out to their surprise (several times) whilst I was working at EGCC, for example, I've seen several people get tazered by airport cops for something really rather mild such as being a bit rowdy, whereas if they had been in a local high street, they'd probably have just been told to 'move on' by the regular cops. The airport cops don't take any prisoners in that regard, and I daresay it's a similar state of affairs for stuff like trying to blag your way onto the flight deck.

[ahsmatt7 1,147]

3 hours ago, Chock said:

Because if you lie on your application to be a shoe salesman, the worst you could do is sell someone some awful-looking shoes, which might alert the fashion police, but it's unlikely to alert the real police. However, if you lie on your application to be an airline pilot and somehow make it into the cockpit, the consequences are potentially deadly.

Having said that, from a more technical standpoint, being that they are ports of entry, in the UK (probably elsewhere too), British airports are under the not very kindly and extremely unforgiving auspices of the UK's Maritime Laws, rather than the regular laws you are under when in a city or town in Britain. So if you went to a BA interview at an airport and tried to blag them, you'd have been committing fraud whilst at a place where the rules are far more strict and the penalties much more extreme.

I've observed people find that out to their surprise (several times) whilst I was working at EGCC, for example, I've seen several people get tazered by airport cops for something really rather mild such as being a bit rowdy, whereas if they had been in a local high street, they'd probably have just been told to 'move on' by the regular cops. The airport cops don't take any prisoners in that regard, and I daresay it's a similar state of affairs for stuff like trying to blag your way onto the flight deck.

The airline should have no problems verifying that his cheers are real...unless he went to great lengths to screw with the actual database. A fake cert is a fake cert. I still don’t understand how he would ever get into the cockpit in the first place. Unless, like I said, he went hardcore in making sure the CAA database was hacked into and changed on his behalf.

secondly, you don’t need to insult my intelligence with the shoe Salesmen app analogy. I’m very well aware of the consequences. I’m arguing the fact of....how could he even get past said verification that the airline should be doing to prevent this stuff. That’s all....

[CYXR 257]

4 hours ago, ahsmatt7 said:

if laying on a job application is a crime....holy hell....

It some legal jurisdictions it can indeed be a criminal offence especially in high risks/safety sensitive positions (like flying passenger airliners). Whole categories of regulated professions are by design set-up to minimize and detect professional misrepresentation. Pretending to be a doctor, a lawyer... a cop... and/or other so-called liberal professions on a job application  can ( it has and it does) lead to criminal prosecution. In most legal jurisdiction it is a tort; negligent and/or fraudulent misrepresentation. It`s never a good idea to lie about one`s professional credentials. Many who have been exposed get blackmailed by those they scammed and in one case I am aware of a case (of a perp who alleged he was being blackmailed by an employer he had scammed). The perp decided walking into a police station and turning himself in was his only option. He never did prove that his employer had blackmailed him; because he had no credibility  as a witness. His deposition went on the record. And he was civilly sued by his former employer.

Better to not get a job that you're not qualified for than to get a job you're not qualified for. The old (and tired) saying according to which: - at the end of the day... it's all about credibility; is true. Lying is a fast track. But it has been known to cause some of the most memorable crashes of all time.  

 

  

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2020 by CYXR

[ahsmatt7 1,147]

27 minutes ago, CYXR said:

It some legal jurisdictions it can indeed be a criminal offence especially in high risks/safety sensitive positions (like flying passenger airliners). Whole categories of regulated professions are by design set-up to minimize and detect professional misrepresentation. Pretending to be a doctor, a lawyer... a cop... and/or other so-called liberal professions on a job application  can ( it has and it does) lead to criminal prosecution. In most legal jurisdiction it is a tort; negligent and/or fraudulent misrepresentation. It`s never a good idea to lie about one`s professional credentials. Many who have been exposed get blackmailed by those they scammed and in one case I am aware of a case (of a perp who alleged he was being blackmailed by an employer he had scammed). The perp decided walking into a police station and turning himself in was his only option. He never did prove that his employer had blackmailed him; because he had no credibility  as a witness. His deposition went on the record. And he was civilly sued by his former employer.

Better to not get a job that you're not qualified for than to get a job you're not qualified for. The old (and tired) saying according to which: - at the end of the day... it's all about credibility; is true. Lying is a fast track. But it has been known to cause some of the most memorable crashes of all time.  

 

  

 

 

 

I of course see everyone’s points and I like how you explained your point as well. Being in the industry, I could t imagine someone who was actually able to slip through the cracks. I also, personally, operate from a tail risk perspective more than anything else. 
 

Thanks for your insight.

[fluffyflops 1,722]

We had a guy at my airline would lied about his hours to get an interview.  Back in day the you needed 3000 hours to sit at the table. To fly the 340/747.  Bit different now on the 330.

Anyways alas,  he only had 1500 I believe,  and had told us he had 4500, he somehow fudged the numbers or not shown his logbook (I've no idea the how's and whys of how he did it) 

He worked for us for 3 years when one of his old colleagues from his previous airlines then joined us a couple of years later and started telling the other pilots how he  couldnt work out how this dude could of had so many more  hours than him  as they started their flying career at the same time as him at the same airline.  (I believe air baltic)

Well the story was told in a few hotels bars on nights tops (as you do) between pilots and the story/rumour got back to the cheif pilot who then trotted off to HR to make some enquiries. 

Long story cut short, they called him in, checked the log book, caught him and subsequently fired him.  I also believed he was striped of his CAA license because you can't do that sort of thing m

Problem was every flight he did for us over the 3 years the aircraft insurance would of been invalidated due to the training requirements of our OM-D / AOC.  We got a small finding from the CAA and told 'dont do that again' 

Caused quite a bit of a fuss in the office that.  I'm amazed it was kept away from the press, but it was a few years back. 

 

[stans 631]

Was this guy a big fan of the movie "Catch Me If You Can"?

[Jude Bradley 637]

LOL,