Game for Xbox?

[Dominique_K 10,138]

9 hours ago, Chock said:

Just thought I'd point out that Avsim's forums has about 817,000 FSX topics (that's a sim from as far back as 14 years ago), about 317,000 P3D topics (that's a sim from as far back as 11 years ago), and about 104,000 XPlane topics (that's a sim from as far back as 25 years ago).

Avsim's MSFS forum already has about 130,000 topics (that's a sim which dates back about seven and a half weeks). If that doesn't tell you how popular it is with flight simmers who think it is more than a mere game, then I don't know what will.

A bit of history here. The FSX forum actually includes all the precedent MS simulators posts since 2002. The FS 2004 forum was created in 2006 by Tom Allensworth after FSX was released following the request of many simmers that found confusing to have issues pertaining to both sims at the same place. Asobo’s baby 130K topics  are all the more impressive.

[knmanyffw 22]

I don't understand why people get offended if it is called a game or a simulator.

Definitions from Google Dictionary:
Game (noun)
an activity that one engages in for amusement or fun.
Simulator (noun)
a machine designed to provide a realistic imitation of the controls and operation of a vehicle, aircraft, or other complex system, used for training purposes.
Simulate (verb)
imitate the appearance or character of.

That means, software simulators are games and all games are simulators in the way you play the role of something being a monster, a vegetable, a soldier, an athlete, a driver or a pilot. Of course there is a difference in the age group of some games so it is not an insult to call a simulator a game.

With that said, there is obviously a difference between a software simulator and a hardware simulator. The reality is, we play MSFS for amusement and fun simulating an aircraft pilot. 

It does not matter if it is called a game or a simulator, Just have fun flying .

[Wobbie 938]

Guys, call it what you will.. I love the 'study leve aircraft' nomenclature.. Just call it what it is.. Complex aircraft..

I suggest that MSFS is a game that simulates a simulator..

Like other Microsoft games previously, this latest in the franchise is developed by a Gaming Studio, as an entertainment product.

Really guys.. how many of you use a joystick with aircraft that have yokes?

Also, take out the trolls in the MSFS forums, then the true figures will pop up.

, 

[CJ1045 469]

Really guys.. how many of you use a yoke with aircraft that have joysticks?  A320 for instance.

CJ

[Wobbie 938]

Rather the vast majority flying the multitude of Boeings with a stick!

LOL, a stick simulating a yoke? Nah! Thats really a bit too much trying to justify calling it a simulator.

That's 'as real as it gets!?'

Edited October 13, 2020 by Wobbie

[Dominique_K 10,138]

9 hours ago, omarsmak30 said:

I am wondering until today, what does it mean it is not real flight simulator? What is your definition here? 
 

A flight simulator is, almost by definition, a progressive goal and cannot be ever in a finished state and the related products cannot be but works in progress. This what the history of PC flight simulation and common sense tell us.

The half dozen products we have on the markets are flight sims in the sense that they want to recreate the experience of real piloting. They all have good points. They are in various states of completion, scenery-wise, aircraft-wise, weather-wise etc. 

7 hours ago, pmb said:

This is really starting to become nasty. I ask myself what's the purpose of all those pointless negative comments.

 

Some are coming from people with a vested interest because they work for the competition. Even before the alpha, they were telling us that it would be a game for Xbox, that no addon or realistic aircraft would be possible. Trying to propagate the idea that MSF is configured as a Xbox game and cannot be a sim is a ploy to protect their preserve.  And then you have all the gregarious sheep following suit. 

But there is some frustration too in the community. Let us not hide ourselves behind our little finger. Neuman have said and still says that they had/have serious simmers in mind. This is debatable (I don’t say it is not true just debatable) when we see the choices they made on what was delivered and what was not yet delivered at release.  And that all the marketing was directed to new audiences through mouth-gaping, stretched-eyes « influencers » blurried the image further in the simmer community. I do not know of any youtubing real pilot who was part of the launching campaign to vouch for the new sim.

As I said above, any sim is always a work in progress and this one is no exception. Neuman keeps on saying that they  listen to the forum communities. I am pretty confident that things will rapidly improve with some work on the aircraft side of the sim. And the Xbox game nonsense will fade away.

 

[jvdbol 6]

31 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

But there is some frustration too in the community. Let us not hide ourselves behind our little finger. Neuman have said and still says that they had/have serious simmers in mind. This is debatable (I don’t say it is not true just debatable) when we see the choices they made on what was delivered and what was not yet delivered at release.  And that all the marketing was directed to new audiences through mouth-gaping, stretched-eyes « influencers » blurried the image further in the simmer community. I do not know of any youtubing real pilot who was part of the launching campaign to vouch for the new sim.

 

I totally agree.

[pmb 5,137]

11 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

But there is some frustration too in the community. Let us not hide ourselves behind our little finger. Neuman have said and still says that they had/have serious simmers in mind. This is debatable (I don’t say it is not true just debatable) when we see the choices they made on what was delivered and what was not yet delivered at release. 

I am convinced they have. They're in the tradition of the old MSFS franchise being scalable over a huge field of users from the beginner to the ATPL pilot which excelled for 2 decades. Some highly-advanced users with addons worth of 1000's of $$$ just forgot what they got with the naked FSX/P3D.

No doubt there is a lot of work to do, there are nasty issues like the VFR map CTD or the buggy logbook, and the AP doesn't work for me better than for others. Still, I decided to go forward and help to improve the next gen simulator instead of returing to yesterday's technology. And I have a lot of fun on that way.

That's my choice. Others may vary. But they should't continually try to drag those like me back into the past.

Kind regards, Michael

[Dominique_K 10,138]

16 minutes ago, pmb said:

I  Still, I decided to go forward and help to improve the next gen simulator instead of returing to yesterday's technology. And I have a lot of fun on that way.

 

This ^^ 😉

[Wobbie 938]

Do not forget that ALL the previous itterations of the sim had fun aspects added, such as cars, boats, parachutists, space ships and even a train.

These have not made the people that enjoy these add-ons any lesser simmers/gamers that those that 'fly' complex aircraft only. As Michael above states. 

They're in the tradition of the old MSFS franchise being scalable over a huge field of users from the beginner to the ATPL pilot. This MUST include all users, even the sailers & space cadets, simple because simming is all about Fun, Facts & Fiction. We even have Godzilla & Star Wars add-ons now for MSFS.

Is it an XBox game? Not yet, but it will be, as that market is huge, compared to our niche market. Yes, it was said that Asobo had 'serious'simmers in mind, & Microsoft has that plus their gaming market as well.

Yes, I am very excited. MSFS is the Holy Grail for some, not all, & it cannot be, as we have such diverse views on what we want in a sim, & it just cannot be, there has to be compromise.

There are the 'fly by numbers' guys, the 'just flying for the sake of fun', the guys that want to explore scenery just for fun, there's the vintage flyers, there's the gamers just having fun, there's the crash boys, the sailors, the drivers, to look at the scenery, and so on.. These are just as valid simmers as the press button complex plane flyers and have the same & every right to talk (or moan) about it as others do.

So, chill out, enjoy & keep the popcorn coming!

 

[leprechaunlive 1,852]

25 minutes ago, pmb said:

That's my choice. Others may vary. But they should't continually try to drag those like me back into the past.

 

Thats it, we can all go home now 😄

[psolk 3,040]

4 hours ago, GSalden said:

Come on Alan. you were always unbiased but regarding MSFS you are wearing pink glasses 🤓

MSFS at this moment is a candy eye game and not a simulator. You of all should see this. If it will ever be a simulator depends on how the future development will turn out.

Hopefully it will turn out good so I will be able to fly with my real size cockpit in MSFS. But at this moment no options for that. And as there are scenery stutters when using faster jetliners,I seriously have my doubts. It might turn out that a lot of eyecandy will have to be turned down in order to minimize these stutters when using complex 3rd party ac.

We can only judge on what is there. Not on what we think that might come..

 

 

Why do you keep pushing this garbage narrative that you can't fly fast with jetliners? 

OMG, I will have to turn down eye candy to minimize stutters with complex 3rd party?  Heaven forbid, that is surely a first in FS, let's go ahead and condemn the entire sim as eye candy.  

Basically YOUR issue is you can not use your complete home cockpit nor can you use PMDG, FSLabs etc "with" your home cockpit.  Could you do that with P3d V1?  V2?  V3?  How many years did we have to wait for a native P3D bird?  How many years?  Don't you fly locked at like 24FPS in your home cockpit anyway?  

I am frankly so tired of this narrative that because MSFS wasn't "released" in the same state as P3D V4.5/5 after YEARS of fixes and workarounds and tweaks, add-on developers fixing what LM broke, FSUIPC, LINDA, ROAR, HiFi, REX, ORBX etc etc  which btw is STILL having numerous performance issues with complex add-ons layered together in it's own right that MSFS is somehow inferior, a game, never going to make it etc etc etc.  Go Fly Vanilla P3D V1 and come back and talk to us about the "foundation" of both sims... 

Honestly P3D is basically FS9 reincarnated now LMAO!!!!  I want complex heavies with all my add-ons and full AI!!!  How many people stayed with FS9 for YEARS because they couldn't achieve that in P3D????  Now all of a sudden P3D is the I want my complex add-ons and heavies and MSFS is "eye candy" or what P3D was 10 years ago.  

So PLEASE, enough with the RIDICULOUS non-sensical, hypocritical, short term memory loss comparisons...    Go back to FS9, sorry I meant P3D if you want your heavies with complex add-ons...  It's what I did yesterday using P3D to fly KEWR-LLBG then loaded up MSFS and took the most spectacular tour of Israel I have ever seen in any sim environment ever....   Period hands down end of story... 

And Please stop showing TE Netherlands and ONE place in P3D that with your thousands of dollars of add-ons over the years can look half as good as the entire vanilla bone stock earth in MSFS...  It's enough already.  (oh wait, Rob found a spot with red clouds so you will point that out too right?) 

Edited October 13, 2020 by psolk

[GSalden 4,656]

13 minutes ago, psolk said:

Why do you keep pushing this garbage narrative that you can't fly fast with jetliners? 

OMG, I will have to turn down eye candy to minimize stutters with complex 3rd party?  Heaven forbid, that is surely a first in FS, let's go ahead and condemn the entire sim as eye candy.  

Basically YOUR issue is you can not use your complete home cockpit nor can you use PMDG, FSLabs etc "with" your home cockpit.  Could you do that with P3d V1?  V2?  V3?  How many years did we have to wait for a native P3D bird?  How many years?  Don't you fly locked at like 24FPS in your home cockpit anyway?  

I am frankly so tired of this narrative that because MSFS wasn't "released" in the same state as P3D V4.5/5 after YEARS of fixes and workarounds and tweaks, add-on developers fixing what LM broke, FSUIPC, LINDA, ROAR, HiFi, REX, ORBX etc etc  which btw is STILL having numerous performance issues with complex add-ons layered together in it's own right that MSFS is somehow inferior, a game, never going to make it etc etc etc.  Go Fly Vanilla P3D V1 and come back and talk to us about the "foundation" of both sims... 

Honestly P3D is basically FS9 reincarnated now LMAO!!!!  I want complex heavies with all my add-ons and full AI!!!  How many people stayed with FS9 for YEARS because they couldn't achieve that in P3D????  Now all of a sudden P3D is the I want my complex add-ons and heavies and MSFS is "eye candy" or what P3D was 10 years ago.  

So PLEASE, enough with the RIDICULOUS non-sensical, hypocritical, short term memory loss comparisons...    Go back to FS9, sorry I meant P3D if you want your heavies with complex add-ons...  It's what I did yesterday using P3D to fly KEWR-LLBG then loaded up MSFS and took the most spectacular tour of Israel I have ever seen in any sim environment ever....   Period hands down end of story... 

And Please stop showing TE Netherlands and ONE place in P3D that with your thousands of dollars of add-ons over the years can look half as good as the entire vanilla bone stock earth in MSFS...  It's enough already.  (oh wait, Rob found a spot with red clouds so you will point that out too right?) 

I pity you...

[psolk 3,040]

1 minute ago, GSalden said:

I pity you...

I pity you if that is the best response you could muster when challenged on your highly skewed opinion. 

I do not need anything from you, let alone your pity and I find your response highly inappropriate honestly.  

 

[wthomas33065 994]

The whole game vs simulator label is nothing more than a passive aggressive attempt to denigrate others.

 It really started when MS started releasing professional editions of flight simulator and got worse when LM started charging 200 bucks for a “not for entertainment use” product.

 Nothing like that to cause your head to swell.  

So imagine how one would feel when you see another product doing so many things better than yours at a fraction of the price.  Oh and it’s going to be ported to a game console?  What’s a serious simmer to do?

You become a sim snob.

Same thing happened when quartz watches came out and nearly destroyed the Swiss Watch industry.  

You’d be shocked at how many people who like watches refuse to wear a quartz watch despite it being more accurate and less expensive.  

They pay 1000’s for a mechanical watch that needs to be wound daily because its computer designed and cut mechanicals were assembled by hand.  Yet will look down on a watch that not only has an internal calendar for the next 100 years, but daily, goes out and sets itself to a time server so it’s always accurate and powers itself from the Sun for 1/10th price because it’s got a quartz crystal instead of a mainspring as a regulator.

 That is the same sort of foolishness that I see from sim snobs here.  They exaggerate simple bugs as design issues and claim they can never be fixed.  They claim fidelity for VFR flight, the very foundation of flying to be nothing more than eye candy.  They claim superiority in the types of planes they fly and belittle others as simply GA.

 And then tell the rest of us that they pity us.   
 

How pitiful