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Jude Bradley

Gamers are replacing Bing Maps objects in MS2020

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There is really no such beast as "Google aerial photography". What Google has done is taken imagery from a variety of sources, stitched it together and color corrected it into seamless whole-earth bird's eye view. Google Earth generally lists the original source for the data.   This is why creating objects from Google imagery is such a legal black hole. Google had to obtain permission from the original owners and hence probably can't give permission to additional 3rd parties.

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I don't understand the claim in the article that this is somehow embarrassing for Bing.

It's not like they are shipping the game with Google assets and claiming they are from Bing.

It's not like Google have made a better flight simulator or something.

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45 minutes ago, jabloomf1230 said:

There is really no such beast as "Google aerial photography". What Google has done is taken imagery from a variety of sources, stitched it together and color corrected it into seamless whole-earth bird's eye view. Google Earth generally lists the original source for the data.   This is why creating objects from Google imagery is such a legal black hole. Google had to obtain permission from the original owners and hence probably can't give permission to additional 3rd parties.

 

I'm unsure if we can legally even use them for personal use? I'm sure the terms and conditions of use exclude export to other software. I'm guessing it'll be in here https://cloud.google.com/maps-platform/terms somewhere. 


Put the thing on the thing. Don't be where you were. 

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On 10/20/2020 at 2:40 PM, ThomseN_inc said:

Now we have a new Sim that is far beyond everything we have seen before and it is still not good enough....

Games have been modded throughout gaming history. So much can be improved with MSFS. Look at the A320 mod already and numerous others are appearing. 

Check the MSFS Nexus:

https://www.nexusmods.com/microsoftflightsimulator/mods/

When it comes to the satellite photo scenery  Google is far better when it comes to certain places.

Example below. RPVI, Philippines. Top pic Bing, bottom Google. 

3GSmes.md.jpg


i7 920 @ 3.5Ghz // GTX 1060 6GB // 12GB DDR3 // Win10 Pro

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6 minutes ago, ThrottleUp said:

Games have been modded throughout gaming history. So much can be improved with MSFS. Look at the A320 mod already and numerous others are appearing. 

Check the MSFS Nexus:

https://www.nexusmods.com/microsoftflightsimulator/mods/

When it comes to the satellite photo scenery  Google is far better when it comes to certain places.

Example below. RPVI, Philippines. Top pic Bing, bottom Google. 

3GSmes.md.jpg

I agree with you saying that there is much to improve. I'm doing it too...a little tweak here, a little workaround there. Thats part of the fun. But i don't see a need to improve the scenery or image quality. Of course this is my very own impression.

But whats also part of the fun is, is that people are never satisfied. 

Edited by ThomseN_inc
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On ‎10‎/‎20‎/‎2020 at 11:40 PM, ThomseN_inc said:

Now we have a new Sim that is far beyond everything we have seen before and it is still not good enough....

Ok I would like to know how you can possible justify a comment like that?

In what aspects are you claiming as a "simulator" that it is far beyond everything we have seen before.

Lets look at this seriously as that's how I take my simming just like I to my real flying.

Lets look at what we have now in P3DV5 using the FSLABS Airbus.

I can plan a flight on simbrief and go straight into the sim.

From there I log into the ATSU to retrieve my flightplan online. I then receive an ACARS from the company to inform me of my slot time for departure. After finalizing my fuel figure I then start up the APU etc and run through initial pre flight cockpit prep and start the boarding process.

Having watched the bags and fuel go onboard and requested my performance data I then get my clearance via CPDLC.

I can then send off an ACARS to the company to get my performance figures for my buffered expected conditions for departure.

With snow falling I now have to start to consider taxi delays etc and whether I go with Type I, II or IV anti ice fluid.

With all packs and bags on its time to get our final figures through and here comes the ACARS. Oh we are 500Kg heavier than planned so I need to get new performance numbers. Off goes another Acars and soon we have new figures are closed up and the ice trucks are inbound. We are expecting a slow taxi so request via the MCDU type IV fluid to give us the maximum holdover time we can get. With the aircraft deiced now it needs anti ice so the timer starts and soon we are covered in type IV its green color showing on our wings and fuselage and now we are ready to push. 20 minutes to run before we blow our holdover time which the deice crew passed onto us.

Delayed on pushback and light snow is falling we have 13 minutes to get airborne.

As we taxi out there are 4 aircraft in front of us its going to be close.

15 minutes later we are number 1 so our holdover time is expired but I send the FO down the back to do a wing inspection and he returns and looking at it we have a very light dusting of snow so we consider it safe to depart.

If it had been any heavier which you can tell easily in the FSLABS  the aircraft would refuse to fly just like the real one.

Now that part about MSFS being better than anything else ever can you say that again but this time seriously?

You mean the sim with a reversed turboprop engine model that has torque and temp inverted over reality?

Do you mean the sim that has thunderstorms which look like mobile volcanic ash clouds piles of black ash erupting vertically into the sky?

You mean the sim where aircraft up to the 747 yaw repeatedly in turbulence which in reality would have cabin crew thrown into the sidewalls being smashed.

A sim where aircraft jump about in only light winds which in reality would involve your head hitting the cabin roof?

You mean the sim which claimed on numerous occasions to have flight modelling backed up by "real world" pilots and systems approved by manufacturers? Which has subsequently by real world pilots like myself proven to be complete utter rubbish.

You mean the sim with real world weather that lags 2-9 hours behind reality?

You mean the sim you cant even set a visibility in weather criteria.

You mean a sim which is supposed hi fidelity airports are missing half the night lighting and cities done in detail the most prominent landmarks...cough Sydney Harbour Bridge.

I think that's enough but I could go on for about 12000 words longer about the list of issues in MSFS.

So again tell me how much better that MSFS is that n what we already have with aircraft that are completely superior in every aspect from flight model to 3D model to simulating systems etc. Not only that but with a sim with locked DLL structure that will not all dev's access to the core of the sim NO serious addons will be released until either MS changes its security policy allowing devs in to access the areas of the core sim they need to make complex addons work properly.

Already PMDG have announced a "MINIMUM" delay of over a year for there first aircraft.

Make no mistake MSFS is a horses rear end with a flight model lagging far behind both xplane and P3D, Aircraft that are barely fit for the task, an aircraft interface that was complained about now for almost 9 months during testing, A camera system that is ridiculously complex and as unuser friendly as ppossible and aircraft that where complained about and released in an unfinished alpha state.

Having flown real aircraft for 35 years ranging from the C150 to a 787, alpha and beta tested for several devs for 17 years the state this sim was released and is still in is a travesty to the hopes of the "simulation" community.

Im sure plenty of gamers are enjoying it but as a "simulation" its not fit for purpose.

As for it being better than "anything ever before" I think that statement speaks for itself compared to the facts..

If your happy with it that's fantastic for you go nd enjoy it.

However when dealing with people who are professionally involved in both aviation and simulation MS and Asobo have made their own bed by refusing to listen to testers, refusing to fix huge blatant obvious problems and in the case of the 787 never even tested it prior to release.

It verges on incompetence or worse.

Has any other dev EVER released an un-beta tested aircraft?

Enjoy your game but please its no simulation and to compare it to xplane or P3D running with a fidelity aircraft is an insult to that sim and developers who take developing accurate products seriously.

 

 

Edited by DEHowie
  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Darren Howie

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16 hours ago, DEHowie said:

Enjoy your game but please its no simulation and to compare it to xplane or P3D running with a fidelity aircraft is an insult to that sim and developers who take developing accurate products seriously.

I've edited this post.  I had mentioned how I thought your drivel was some of the most self absorbed and condescending that I had read in a long time, but you've made this self evident.

So while you sit with your $200+ plus "not for entertainment use" simulator and $140.00 add on airplane, (God that must make you proud), it must just burn your butt to see this for $60.00

 

 

But that's ok, we get it.  You'll never experience anything remotely like this globally with your product.  

So fly off back to your P3D forum  and be happy and take your ACARS with you.



 

Edited by wthomas33065
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  • Upvote 2

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On 10/22/2020 at 2:04 AM, imaner76 said:

I'm unsure if we can legally even use them for personal use? I'm sure the terms and conditions of use exclude export to other software. I'm guessing it'll be in here https://cloud.google.com/maps-platform/terms somewhere. 

Google encourage non-commercial use:

https://www.google.com/permissions/geoguidelines/

  • Like 1

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17 hours ago, DEHowie said:

Ok I would like to know how you can possible justify a comment like that?

In what aspects are you claiming as a "simulator" that it is far beyond everything we have seen before.

Lets look at this seriously as that's how I take my simming just like I to my real flying.

Lets look at what we have now in P3DV5 using the FSLABS Airbus.

I can plan a flight on simbrief and go straight into the sim.

From there I log into the ATSU to retrieve my flightplan online. I then receive an ACARS from the company to inform me of my slot time for departure. After finalizing my fuel figure I then start up the APU etc and run through initial pre flight cockpit prep and start the boarding process.

Having watched the bags and fuel go onboard and requested my performance data I then get my clearance via CPDLC.

I can then send off an ACARS to the company to get my performance figures for my buffered expected conditions for departure.

With snow falling I now have to start to consider taxi delays etc and whether I go with Type I, II or IV anti ice fluid.

With all packs and bags on its time to get our final figures through and here comes the ACARS. Oh we are 500Kg heavier than planned so I need to get new performance numbers. Off goes another Acars and soon we have new figures are closed up and the ice trucks are inbound. We are expecting a slow taxi so request via the MCDU type IV fluid to give us the maximum holdover time we can get. With the aircraft deiced now it needs anti ice so the timer starts and soon we are covered in type IV its green color showing on our wings and fuselage and now we are ready to push. 20 minutes to run before we blow our holdover time which the deice crew passed onto us.

Delayed on pushback and light snow is falling we have 13 minutes to get airborne.

As we taxi out there are 4 aircraft in front of us its going to be close.

15 minutes later we are number 1 so our holdover time is expired but I send the FO down the back to do a wing inspection and he returns and looking at it we have a very light dusting of snow so we consider it safe to depart.

If it had been any heavier which you can tell easily in the FSLABS  the aircraft would refuse to fly just like the real one.

Now that part about MSFS being better than anything else ever can you say that again but this time seriously?

You mean the sim with a reversed turboprop engine model that has torque and temp inverted over reality?

Do you mean the sim that has thunderstorms which look like mobile volcanic ash clouds piles of black ash erupting vertically into the sky?

You mean the sim where aircraft up to the 747 yaw repeatedly in turbulence which in reality would have cabin crew thrown into the sidewalls being smashed.

A sim where aircraft jump about in only light winds which in reality would involve your head hitting the cabin roof?

You mean the sim which claimed on numerous occasions to have flight modelling backed up by "real world" pilots and systems approved by manufacturers? Which has subsequently by real world pilots like myself proven to be complete utter rubbish.

You mean the sim with real world weather that lags 2-9 hours behind reality?

You mean the sim you cant even set a visibility in weather criteria.

You mean a sim which is supposed hi fidelity airports are missing half the night lighting and cities done in detail the most prominent landmarks...cough Sydney Harbour Bridge.

I think that's enough but I could go on for about 12000 words longer about the list of issues in MSFS.

So again tell me how much better that MSFS is that n what we already have with aircraft that are completely superior in every aspect from flight model to 3D model to simulating systems etc. Not only that but with a sim with locked DLL structure that will not all dev's access to the core of the sim NO serious addons will be released until either MS changes its security policy allowing devs in to access the areas of the core sim they need to make complex addons work properly.

Already PMDG have announced a "MINIMUM" delay of over a year for there first aircraft.

Make no mistake MSFS is a horses rear end with a flight model lagging far behind both xplane and P3D, Aircraft that are barely fit for the task, an aircraft interface that was complained about now for almost 9 months during testing, A camera system that is ridiculously complex and as unuser friendly as ppossible and aircraft that where complained about and released in an unfinished alpha state.

Having flown real aircraft for 35 years ranging from the C150 to a 787, alpha and beta tested for several devs for 17 years the state this sim was released and is still in is a travesty to the hopes of the "simulation" community.

Im sure plenty of gamers are enjoying it but as a "simulation" its not fit for purpose.

As for it being better than "anything ever before" I think that statement speaks for itself compared to the facts..

If your happy with it that's fantastic for you go nd enjoy it.

However when dealing with people who are professionally involved in both aviation and simulation MS and Asobo have made their own bed by refusing to listen to testers, refusing to fix huge blatant obvious problems and in the case of the 787 never even tested it prior to release.

It verges on incompetence or worse.

Has any other dev EVER released an un-beta tested aircraft?

Enjoy your game but please its no simulation and to compare it to xplane or P3D running with a fidelity aircraft is an insult to that sim and developers who take developing accurate products seriously.

 

 

😅

 

😂

 

🤣

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2 hours ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

Google encourage non-commercial use:

https://www.google.com/permissions/geoguidelines/

I didn't make myself clear in my original post. Since Google took the imagery from a variety of sources, they really can't give permission for its use in freeware. By the same token they really can't block use either. The original source of the imagery could but many of them are governments and probably don't care.

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27 minutes ago, airlinejets said:

😅

 

😂

 

🤣

lol

 

Reasons why P3D is a game and not a simulation

- you do not need a medical

- there is no type certification, any pilot can fly any plane

- there are no check rides, you just get to fly forever without anyone checking your competence

- you can fly IFR without any prior training or clearance

- you can fly VFR in IFR conditions and no-one cares

- you can fly VFR through controlled airspace and just ignore the ATC if you want

- when starting a big radial that has sat for a month or two you do NOT fill the entire airfield with blue smoke

- you can fly through restricted airspace or even land at a military airfield without it effecting your licence or flying privileges

- violent and aerobatic style manouvres are fine with your passengers who do not throw up and never complain

- there is no way whatsoever to use any form of celestial navigation

- there are never issues with drunk abusive passengers

- your logbook is totally optional

- there is zero airport security, absolutely anyone can climb in any plane

- babies do not throw up all over your passenger cabin

- you get to fly aircraft that require a co-pilot without a co-pilot if you want

- flying into the wake of a large plane does nothing

-  there is no need to worry about bird strikes

- flying VFR the scenery has this odd habit of repeating over and over like in groundhog day

 

I can probably think of a few more but I leave that for others  ...

 

Edited by Glenn Fitzpatrick
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13 minutes ago, jabloomf1230 said:

I didn't make myself clear in my original post. Since Google took the imagery from a variety of sources, they really can't give permission for its use in freeware. By the same token they really can't block use either. The original source of the imagery could but many of them are governments and probably don't care.

Granting will depend very much on what rights Google negotiated with the original IP holder.  If this was a book or script we are basically talking the ability to pass on subsidiary rights I suppose. Google have lots of expensive IP lawyers you would hope they at least got the basics correct.

Blocking they can probably do as you are using their modified and processed data in a particular proprietary electronic form.   Even though something like the Washington Monument is government property and public domain I can still restrict what people do with a documentary I made about it.

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54 minutes ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

- flying into the wake of a large plane does nothing

Oh, I dunno... I crashed once when I flew through wake turbulence in P3Dv4.  I believe it was possible to fly in a circle and fly through your *own* wake turbulence.
 

57 minutes ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

- you get to fly aircraft that require a co-pilot without a co-pilot if you want

There's an interesting story about a guy who soloed a Constellation out of an airport that was about to be flooded, saving the airplane.  Let me know if you are interested and I'll see if I can find it and quote it here.
 

1 hour ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

- violent and aerobatic style manouvres are fine with your passengers who do not throw up and never complain

You never flew the A2A Piper J3 Cub with Nervous Heidi, right? 😄   Fun Heidi liked aerobatics though.
 

1 hour ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

- there is no way whatsoever to use any form of celestial navigation

Actually, there's an addon for that. 🙂 

Hook

  • Like 1

Larry Hookins

 

Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;

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