Honeycomb Alpha Flight Yoke and Switch Panel

[CFIJose 5,485]

How ironic:

https://fselite.net/news/honeycomb-aeronautical-reveals-new-controls-xbox-support-and-more/

 

Edited October 21, 2020 by DJJose

[FrankR409 514]

36 minutes ago, RXP said:

I believe I understand this rocker switch on the yoke, it is not dissimilar than the one I've been used to on a 737 for example.

What I'm referring to is the force you're feeling on the yoke when you've not trimmed the aircraft and this physical sensation you get and build up upon which makes trimming the aircraft something natural IRL (otherwise watch for sore forearms).

It looks like the few of the yokes on the market have force feedback and therefore this makes me asking users of these yoke how does this translates in their flying regarding trimming, and for those flying both IRL and in simulators how does this impact, if any, when transitioning from simulator to aircraft for example? (in the sense of muscular memory)

PS: This is a genuine question I'm asking, not trying to stir up a controversy in the forum!

Good question.  If the aircraft is not trimmed properly, you will be using back pressure or forward pressure to exert proper control authority.   I’m not a real pilot, however it  seems to compare very similarly to the numerous videos I watch of real pilots.
 

 

[109Sqn 1,557]

11 minutes ago, DJJose said:

How ironic:

https://fselite.net/news/honeycomb-aeronautical-reveals-new-controls-xbox-support-and-more/

 

They seriously need to consider getting enough stock of the existing products available before bringing out even more items. I certainly wouldn't be expecting them to achieve the stated availability dates if the past is anything to go by.

And funny how everything from Honeycomb is $250 - I'm surprised the joystick on its own isn't $250 as well!🤣

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,798]

54 minutes ago, 109Sqn said:

 

Since nobody has directly answered this point, I believe the only commercially available yoke is made by Brunner. €1200.

I asked about FF in another thread (in the Hardware forum) and the general response was that FF doesn't really offer much in a flight sim. I certainly couldn't justify €1200 for it!

I use an FFB2 joystick and really like it.

However you are right the only FFB Yoke is the Brunner and I could not justify that much money just to add the FFB. It is a nice yoke but approaching a deposit on a real aircraft.

The comments hat FFB does not add much are probably from the virtual airline crew who fly fly-by-wire aircraft that even in real life have very little natural force on the stick, That said, in combat sims and GA flying the FFB is invaluable it adds the following if setup correctly with the right software:

- with the correct trim behaviour you have the ability to trim easily and correctly, without FFB people have a tendency to "fly with trim" using trim to set the correct attitude rather than holding the attitude with yoke and trimming out any forces
- good FFB will give some degree of warning of stall, either naturally through the stick getting light and kicking or through  a stick shaker in fly by wire
- if modelled correctly turbulence actually kicks your stick about
- you get an immersion factor with ground roll vibration and nose wheel shimmy which also gives a positive indication of rotation (useful if the aircraft rotates naturally before you want it to)

soo .. FFB done well is actually very useful if your not flying a tubeliner.

HOWEVER it is not well supported in most sims and in terms of Yokes at least is very expensive.

My assessment of FFB is that if you can see a MS FFB2 joystick cheap on EBAY grab it they are fantastic, but as far as paying triple the price for a Brunner, stick with a honeycomb or Fulcrum.

 

[RXP 2,338]

@Glenn Fitzpatrick Thank you for sharing. I do have a SWFF2, purchased it 20 years ago, and it is like brand new!

It is indeed a very good joystick from that perspective with plenty of buttons, a hat and FF included, which is as far as I remember also probably one of the strongest FF found in all joysticks at the time (maybe even now). I concur with the advantages of FF in simulators and this is exactly what I was used to feel too (trim, bumps etc...).

Since I've wrote my question I've probably realized when using a yoke without FF the springs will make the yoke always go back to a center position and you might have to trim further than necessary because of the fixed neutral yoke position (center) whereas with FF you could have balanced forces without the yoke in the center position.

Hence my question about how this if affecting trimming in practice for those having a no-FF yoke, and for those also flying IRL how does this affect muscle memory. I'm quiet torn between it doesn't matter much in the simulator because most of the time you'd end up trimming for the yoke near the center anyhow, and it does matter much because it could give bad habits.

If someone with a non-FF yoke would take the time to cross-check how it goes for them it would be much appreciated!!

 

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,798]

3 hours ago, 177B said:

In many planes there are 2 switches like that for trim, because it is very critical that it works. So it is a fail safe 2 have to stop working for trim to stop working. If one gets stuck on nose down trim (or up) it will not work. Both must be pressed for trim to work.

It can be almost impossible to override severe nose down trim. So this is a very good fail safe.

That is exactly it, the real issue with a single switch is if you get a wiring fault that shorts the trim to ground you get run away trim that goes to full deflection and can make the aircraft uncontrollable.  What the double switch does is DISABLE trim unless both switches are functional.

At least in a Cessna you still have a manual trim wheel that lets you trim by hand even if the electrics fail 😄

Edited October 21, 2020 by Glenn Fitzpatrick

[Air1 136]

I have had my honeycomb yoke for over a year and love it. Only problem has been the yoke started to work loose on the shaft. I had to take it apart and tighten 3 bolts that were becoming loose. Not worth returning it for this slight problem. Many other people have had this problem also. I would think it has been remedied in later production.

[Romeo_Tango 143]

6 hours ago, Frank Rajnai said:

I just recieved my Honeycomb, and I've done a few short flights with it for tuning and to get a feel for it. Like many I am coming from a Saitek Pro yoke, which I was never too fond of.

So far, I really like the roll axis movement, however, I find the elevator axis to be VERY stiff. Like I dont dig it at all.

Does anyone have any solution for this? Can I maybe adjust sensitivity way up so i dont have to push/pull so much?

For those that are happy with the pitch axis... can I trouble you for your sensitivity settings or setup?

It is for this reason that I ordered the fulcrum. Elevator axes of the honeycomb too stiff and too short.

It is better than the CH yoke I used before; I got the honey comb  based  on all the hype, but if the fulcrum feels better, the honeycomb may be on ebay soon. 

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

9 hours ago, Little Jenny said:

I was wondering about the heading bug issue.  I haven't used my Alpha yet (just got it Monday).  Like you, I don't use the scroll wheel to change the heading or altitude, so looks like the buttons aren't going to be an issue.  Woohoo!!!!!

There is no heading/altitude bug with the Alpha Flight Controls.  There is however a bug with MSFS where if you assign trim (or any) switches to heading or altitude change it will increment by 10 instead of one.  Since pilots and experienced flight simmers would never, ever assign heading or altitude to a up/down button, it didn't occur to anyone at Asobo to test this, but now that they are aware of it I'm sure they'll fix it.  It does this with ANY flight sim hardware that have such switches.

Best wishes!

 

[N7470 26]

I recently upgraded from my old CH Yoke to Honeycomb.  Absolutely love how smooth it is and how it reliably self centers.  Calibration is always perfect too.  I unbound all the toggle switches and don't really miss them.

[Little Jenny 315]

41 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said:

There is no heading/altitude bug with the Alpha Flight Controls.  There is however a bug with MSFS where if you assign trim (or any) switches to heading or altitude change it will increment by 10 instead of one.  Since pilots and experienced flight simmers would never, ever assign heading or altitude to a up/down button, it didn't occur to anyone at Asobo to test this, but now that they are aware of it I'm sure they'll fix it.  It does this with ANY flight sim hardware that have such switches.

Best wishes!

 

I'm not that concerned about the issue.  I did my first flight tonight with the Alpha and other than forgetting that I don't need to use the virtual cockpit for the lights, I was very pleased.  Excellent piece of sim hardware, IMO.

[Flyfaster_MTN002 412]

Agree it is a bit stiff for the elevators. Maybe softens up over time?

[hatchna 136]

I've had my Honeycomb Alpha for nearly a year now, and I love it. It has made flight simming so much more enjoyable for me. No problems in MSFS either. Now I'm just waiting for my Bravo pre-order to show up.

[Flyfaster_MTN002 412]

27 minutes ago, hatchna said:

I've had my Honeycomb Alpha for nearly a year now, and I love it. It has made flight simming so much more enjoyable for me. No problems in MSFS either. Now I'm just waiting for my Bravo pre-order to show up.

Has it loosened up at all over that time?

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,798]

Just out of interest this is what Honeycomb have to say about tensioning:

 

Quote

 

Is there a way to fix the tension of the yoke?

There is no way to fix the tension without breaking the warranty. We spent several months on dialing in the tension on both axis and where it ended up is due to multiple reasons. 

 

Tolerances 

The elevator axis is rolling on dual lineal bearings that maximizes lifespan and ensures the ability to make minute adjustments without the yoke being jerky. Unfortunately, the same bearings also require a fairly high level of tension loading to avoid the return to the Center Point location to exceed our max tolerance of 3 mm. 

Center Detent 

The tension was also carefully chosen to find the perfect compromise between tension and detent. The target was not to feel any detent when going over the center point. (under normal operation – If you pull the elevator from min to max then you will feel a detent, but that is not how you fly). 

Trimming 

We also put a great deal of focus on getting a realistic trim feel on the yoke when flying GA aircrafts. A higher tension level gives a more realistic feel of trimming out the tension of the yoke.  

Realistic Moment 

The tension on the elevator axis increases in the air as the tension increases with airflow over the elevator and horizontal stabilizer or in some cases the stabilator. The current tension is very close to the median tension of real-world aircrafts we have flown and tested. 

Movement 

90% of the flying is done within one inch of movement around the center point, so the most realistic feel needs to be in that area.