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Guest WSTS

Help Flying the Airbus

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Guest WSTS

I have tried several times to fly the airbus and I cannot seem to be able to get the elevator trim to work. I can see the trim wheel moving on the ground but it seems "Stuck" while flying.I am not sure if I am fighting some part of the autopilot. Also sometime the auto throttle comes on even when the "Autopilot" is turned off.Could any or all of the above problems be related?TerryPS: The elevator trim in "ALL" of the other FSX aircraft seem to function corectly with the Logitech Extream 3D Pro joystick. The trim control via the keyboard (7/1 keys) also will not work in flight.

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Hi,Since I haven't FSX (still waiting for my convention copy :( ), I can't comment on the Airbus model in FSX - but I do know a bit about the real life Airbus autothrottle.Basically, you only use the throttles in the 'normal' way during taxi. Instead it is divided into 4 segments by 5 detents: TOGA, FLX MCT (derate takeoff), CL (max climb), IDLE and MAX REV (reverse). The authrottle is active in all modes, except TOGA and MAX REV, unless you specifically turn it off. At takeoff, you set your throttles to FLX MCT (or TOGA for full rated takeoff). As you reach a certain altitude, the MCDU calls for "LVR CLB", and you set you thottles to CL. You keep it there until you reach Top Of Descent, then you move them to IDLE. On landing, you will get an aural warning "RETARD" and you move the throttles to the MAX REV detent. To reverse, you pull up the throttles to clear the detent and move them into the MAX REV segment.Again, this is what you do in the real plane (and in PSS' airbus), but I can't know how well FSX model this.As for your trim problem: Yes, it could well be you're fighting the autopilot - and you won't be the first...HTH & BRGDSSven Sorensen, EKCH

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Terry - the A321 has a fly by wire flight control system that autotrims the airplane, there's no need to trim manually. The FSX version has a rudimentary implementation of this system and it should automatically trim for you as you hold a pitch or bank angle...


Ryan Maziarz
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Guest WSTS

Thank you both for the insite into flying this strange jet. I agree that it is probably why there has been so many real world problems and negative press.I am still kind of confused as to the throttle operation. Does the throttles allow the pilot to set them to a specific thrust/power? (Manually control the amount of thrust as in hand flying the jet)As for the auto trim, I am not really liking it right now as it seems as if I have no control over the jet, especially when on decent and landing. The jet wants to climb and ATC is yelling at me to go to a lower altitude. My experience is both general and military aviation (real world) and just about every version of MS Flight Sim.Terry

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Hi Terry,I did a lot of research a while ago on Airbus autothrust. I am sure there is a hole in my notes somewhere but below summarises its operation. I am sure a real world aviator will correct any errors. Yes thrust can be controlled manually if required. I havent tried the FSX Airbus so not sure whether it bares any resemblance to my notes.Incidentally the A320 series reverse thrust functions is quite different to the larger Airbuses. Notes below:GeneralAuto thrust can be governed by demanded speed/mach or demanded thrust. It should be noted that when the flight director and autopilot are not active then auto thrust can only be governed by selected speed except when APP mode is activated. In this case selected or managed speed is available. Exceptionally, alpha floor can demand maximum thrust at excessive angles of attack.If the flight director is switched off before take-off then auto thrust cannot be armed until above 100 feet.Alpha floor protectionThis function is designed to prevent a stall occurring at angles of attack that are excessive for the current aircraft configuration. It is available automatically when minimum engine, altitude and configuration criteria are met. Auto thrust must be disconnected to cancel ALPHA FLOOR/TOGA LK.Auto thrust StatusAuto thrust has three possible states and these are governed by the position of the thrust levers. These are, Disconnected, Armed or Active.Armed:This is indicated by A/THR displayed in blue on the right hand FMA column on the PFD and illumination of the auto thrust button on the FCU.This means that the auto thrust system can govern the aircraft performance (become active) providing that further conditions (described under


Regards

 

Howard

 

H D Isaacs

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Guest comma

"Thank you both for the insite into flying this strange jet. I agree that it is probably why there has been so many real world problems and negative press."Well i have to react to this. I hope that it's my bad english that made me misunderstand your saying. Are you just telling that this feature make the A320 (and whole recent airbus fleet) a bad aircraft ? "negative press", "real world pbs"... Are you a kind of avionics expert of something ?Don't won't to drop in the Boeing Vs Airbus war, i like both, but fact is that Airbus was 10 years ahead of his competitor when they launched the A32X series.And be sure that fly by wire will be a standard in every aircraft in the next years, actually it is just a matter of being in advance or not.See "economic (and scientific) patriotism" is not a only an american restricted thing.All the best.CommaPS : I have a homecockpit 737... i NEVER fly airbus in FS (you know why ? because i prefer the yoke to the stick, it's really part of my child dream ! but i do know one day every aircraft WILL have a stick)

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Guest stems

I am not sure about the autotrim. I rarely use the autopilot for landing but I set the speed as required but then use the trim to adjust the descent rate. Is this wrong, if so how is it done in practice.

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>Thank you both for the insite into flying this strange jet. I>agree that it is probably why there has been so many real>world problems and negative press.>>I am still kind of confused as to the throttle operation. Does>the throttles allow the pilot to set them to a specific>thrust/power? (Manually control the amount of thrust as in>hand flying the jet)>>As for the auto trim, I am not really liking it right now as>it seems as if I have no control over the jet, especially when>on decent and landing. The jet wants to climb and ATC is>yelling at me to go to a lower altitude. My experience is both>general and military aviation (real world) and just about>every version of MS Flight Sim.>>TerryWhat 'Real World Problems' and 'Negative Press'?Other than the Paris Airshow incident (early on in the A320 development) where are the 'problems' you talk about?It's quite simple if you RTFM.The A320 series automatically adjusts trim through the FBW system. The throttle can be manually controlled if so desired, however the onboard management is usually more efficient in normal flight conditions. Most pilots only use manual thrust for landing phase, if at all.The MS FSX version is typical of default aircraft. Not much substance I'm afraid.Wait for the PMDG version. I'm sure that will give us the 'real deal' on fly by wire and the Airbus system logic.Just because it's different doesn't make it bad or wrong......

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Guest WSTS

I am sorry to have ruffled so many simulated Airbus drivers out there with my questions on the trim and autopilot system. Airbus along with most of the other manufactures are now building aircraft that do not require conventional piloting skills that have been used since man first flew. No more stick and rudder pilots, instead you are system managers and video game players. Maybe that is why I seem to have so many problems with the A321. There are too many systems that want to fly the jet "For" you instead of you flying the jet. Automatic systems are good; especially when they are working correctly but the crew also needs to be able to hand fly the jet. That is what I am trying to do, hand fly the jet and not just dialing in numbers on the autopilot panel.Many years ago, the Air Force had problems with the F-111s and the Stall Inhibitor System that was built into the jet. The jet would actually fight the pilot during certain maneuvers which required the aircraft to be going in other directions other than straight and level. I believe the manufacture finally put an over ride switch in so that the crew could actually do their job of getting the bomb on target without the jet trying to do something else.TerryPS:In a reply above response to "Reading the Manual", where can I find one to read? The help section in FSX only cover Basics and not specific aircraft systems for aircraft like the A321. At least I could not find it in the beginning (non-flying part) of FSX.

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Guest WSTS

Thanks, I wonder why MS forgot to add this to FSX.Terry

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Terry,... and here in lies the problem.The Airbus is an aircraft, it has wings and engines, elevators and ailerons and pilots sat up the front.It flies like every other plane in existence.It does, however, have a very sophisticated fly by wire flight control system which takes some of the hard work out of hand flying. With the autopilot disconnected it doesn't hand fly it for you, it doesn't decide where to go, it doesn't decide what to do, it merely helps out by artificially applying some stability to various aircraft axis'.It is designed to be flown by a pilot the normal way pilots fly aircraft. If you fly it normally it will (in real life, I noticed the FSX version was a bit dodgy) fly like a normal aircraft but you will notice it requires just a little less work than a normal aircraft, thus freeing you up to think about other things going on.Airbus pilots are no more systems managers than any other modern complex jet airliner pilots, they require the same flying skills and the same airmanship. Airbus have designed the aircraft to be operated just a little different to Boeing, this is different, not wrong, bad or stupid. However, when it comes to flying, fly it like a normal aircraft, it flies just fine.In fact, even when all the flight control systems are disconnected and you really are flying it like a "normal" airliner, it still flies just fine, just requires more work to do it accurately. I appreciate that people who aren't used to the flight control system will hear the rumour and hearsay and think it flies wrong, they then try to fly it in a different way and sure enough, it flies wrong ... must be an Airbus fault/problem/bug. Incorrect, just fly it like a normal aircraft.Knock the autopilot out, switch off the autothrust and fly the thing around like a 737, just don't try and trim it. Apart from a few protections (which, if you're flying it "normally" you shouldn't get anywhere near anyway) it flies pretty much the same.Hope this has helped dispel some myths and legends,Take care,Ian

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Guest stems

IanWhen I had fly the A320 (PSS) I always use the trim to set the descent rate required. In all posts it seems that everybody says do not use th trim. What is the best way to have a descent rate fixed without having to push on the joystick.

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Guest WSTS

Ian, I want to thank you along with the rest of the folks that have responded to this thread. I guess my biggest problem is trying to learn the "Switchology" for this simulated aircraft. I press either the "Z" key on the keyboard and or the AP button on the panel and think the autopilot is now disconnected. Then the Auto throttle button comes on. If I get both the AP and Autothrottle buttons turned off, then I cannot get the FD (flight director) to turn off. It seems as though this jet will not let me fly (hand fly) as I can in the Boeing, Lear, CRJ700, Beechcraft, Cessna, etc. I understand the fly by wire systems and how they are designed to keep bundles of wires and hydraulic lines from running through large areas in the jet. I also understand that computers can an do a "Much" better job in most cases controling the jet and getting it to a pre-determined destination. It is for those times when the "Technology" is not needed and or not working correctly that the "Human" factor comes into play and the pilot needs the knowledge and skills to safely fly the aircraft. I guess my bottom line questions are how do I turn off the autopilot/autothrottle and trim the aircraft when ithey are turned off.Terry

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>Ian>>When I had fly the A320 (PSS) I always use the trim to set the>descent rate required. In all posts it seems that everybody>says do not use th trim. What is the best way to have a>descent rate fixed without having to push on the joystick.Assuming you're not using the autopilot...In the real aircraft one would simply set the attitude required for the descent rate you wanted, the aircraft would hold that attitude (it's actually holding vertical G) and bingo, you have your descent.Now no one has been able to accurately model the airbus FBW system particularly well in FS so that probably wouldn't work. The PSS airbus was great on autopilot but by hand, flew nothing like the real thing.Not convinced I've really helped you here,Take care,Ian

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