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jspilot

A320 Landing Plane just sinks out of the sky

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I have now tried 3 flights since the past update where the A320 literally just sinks out of the sky while flying the ILS.  It's impossible to control.  It actually looks like it is hitting an invisible wall once I descend below 4,000 feet.  I've flown flight sims for over 20 years and I know I have the ILS set up correctly( Not so relevant but I'm also a Private Pilot too).  I have Autothrottle engaged with an approach speed set, ILS tuned, Altitude managed mode engaged and no matter what I do, the plane won't level off below 4,000 at any assigned altitude and just basically sinks out of the sky.  I push full throttles to try and regain altitude and literally nothing helps( the plane becomes unflyable and just sinks to the ground.)  The Plane will climb only with TOGA set and won't level off no matter what which makes flying any approach( let alone an ILS) impossible.

It's honestly terrible that tis game has planes that are unflyable right now.  Is this a known issue?  Has anyone been able to fly this A320 since the last update?  Is there a work around here( I figured out that adding fuel to the center tank was the work around to the engine cutting out-- is that the problem causing this issue?)  I'm wondering if it's a center of gravity issue but before takeoff, my CG is within the center limits.

 

Any help would be appreciated.  Pretty sure I'm just parking this A320 until someone comes up with a better version.

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I am flying the A320 with FlyByWire Mod daily and do not experience any of this...

What I found is that I have to keep the approach speed up, meaning higher than what the McDo says...

I think the stall behavior is off, an A320 should not stall under normal law, but it acts funny, when speed is to low.

Make sure the throttle is in the CLB setting, after the initial FLEX climb. I highly recommend the FlyByWire Mod!  

Another thing I would check is, your control settings. Make sure no axis is assigned double and your controls are calibrated within Windows.

Hope you can get it figured out!

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Appreciate the response.  I guess I have to try the mod version.  The default version seems broken by the last update.  Your point about speed is interesting.  I noticed it could hold the altitude when I had the speed set at 220 knots but that’s too fast to land.  As soon as I slow down to final approach speed( around 146-150 knots) that’s when the sink occurs.

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2 hours ago, jspilot said:

Appreciate the response.  I guess I have to try the mod version.  The default version seems broken by the last update.  Your point about speed is interesting.  I noticed it could hold the altitude when I had the speed set at 220 knots but that’s too fast to land.  As soon as I slow down to final approach speed( around 146-150 knots) that’s when the sink occurs.

Something is wrong with your setup. I am able to fly perfect approaches down to any altitude. Agree that once you disconnect the AP, the plane needs tender loving care. I find 145 a good speed to land and feel good about the flight. Nothing too abnormal.

 

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1 hour ago, Andreas Stangenes said:

What is your weight when you land? How much fuel are in your tanks?

Good question.  I’ve been filling the center tank and usually taking off with about 92% capacity.  The problem occurs though on short flights( 250nm) and longer ones too.  
 

I think my next effort will be to not fill the center tank filling anymore as that does not seem to matter anymore.

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Flying the A320NX here and landings are fine. no wing drop for weeks...

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20 minutes ago, flyforever said:

Something is wrong with your setup. I am able to fly perfect approaches down to any altitude. Agree that once you disconnect the AP, the plane needs tender loving care. I find 145 a good speed to land and feel good about the flight. Nothing too abnormal.

 

The thing is I was able to fly perfect approaches too up until this latest update.  I never had these issues when the game first came out and I have not changed anything.  I think I’m going to see if the center tank fuel filling which was the workaround for the engine quitting might be the culprit.  As I’ve said though, this is happening on every flight no matter the length so, while I suspect a CG issue I really don’t think that’s it.  It literally is like the plane stops responding to the autothrust and will not level off at assigned altitude.

 

Something definitely went wrong with the last update too.  I no longer can switch the speed from Mach display to Speed display( the button does not change the display from Mach no matter how often I push it.). To me, these are bugs in the aircraft more than anything I’m doing wrong.

Appreciate everyone’s help.

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As you know, we all have the same  updates. I am not using any mods. I can tell you that you must keep the throttles at no lower than 50%, even during the approach, in order to make sure that you don't loose control effectiveness. Try your approaches keeping the thrust at no less than 50%. The aircraft will slow down to 145 with full flaps and provide stable pitch and aileron control.

tc

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What you are describing is the interaction between a faulty FBW envelope protection system implementation with incorrect (too high) stall speeds. You are pretty much hosed at that point unless you apply full TOGA power. There can be a fine line between being at an approach speed that doesn't cause this and one that does. It doesn't help when you are heavier. You might try bumping up the approach speeds progressively by 5 knots until it performs reliably. Be careful with pitch inputs. 

I've seldom seen this issue myself, but it has occurred a few times. I just fly managed speed with the thrust levers in the CL position, deploying flaps on schedule with a final landing configuration of full landing flaps and gear down. I get established on the glidepath under autopilot control, then disengage the autopilot at around 1000 feet (or lower depending on visibility/winds).

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5 hours ago, Donstim said:

What you are describing is the interaction between a faulty FBW envelope protection system implementation with incorrect (too high) stall speeds. You are pretty much hosed at that point unless you apply full TOGA power. There can be a fine line between being at an approach speed that doesn't cause this and one that does. It doesn't help when you are heavier. You might try bumping up the approach speeds progressively by 5 knots until it performs reliably. Be careful with pitch inputs. 

I've seldom seen this issue myself, but it has occurred a few times. I just fly managed speed with the thrust levers in the CL position, deploying flaps on schedule with a final landing configuration of full landing flaps and gear down. I get established on the glidepath under autopilot control, then disengage the autopilot at around 1000 feet (or lower depending on visibility/winds).

Appreciate this.  What you are describing is exactly what used to happen where I would establish descent rate and then lower speed as I’m descending to eventually reach final approach speed while deploying flaps on the way down.  That worked for me for years.

 

Two things that remain unclear to me.  Why does the A320 for me anyway, currently not level off at the assigned altitude I’ve inputted into the autopilot? That’s new and only seems to be occurring after this past update.  I will level off during cruise but something is not working right on that issue right now.  Second, it seems like this could be an auto throttle vs managed altitude mode issue.  For instance, I’ve noticed that this game overall uses pitch to manage speed a lot more than it should be.  Meaning even during a climb, rather than the airplane increasing thrust to increase speed( think about when climbing above 10,000 when the 250 speed restriction goes away) the plane will level off or even start a slight decent to reach its next planned speed.  Clearly someone in the coding of aerodynamics for this game understands that A basic tenant of flying is pitch controls airspeed and power controls altitude but my sense is right now, the game is relying too much on this and it’s creating major issues with the planes ability to use thrust vs pitch.  What should be happening during the decent phase of flight is the engines should be near idle with a steady rate of decent.  When leveling off we should see the plane pitch to level flight while simultaneously the thrust levers increase.  Again for whatever reason, that’s not happening right now during my approach phase.  The plane won’t level below 3,000 feet and just sinks and I can only get the plane to not crash by using TOGA power but eventually it just sinks totally.  That’s not supposed to be happening and I’m stumped by why it is.  I’m going to try again when I can with much less fuel and see if I can make the plane at least flyable until someone comes up with a better airliner to use.  I love the A320 and it’s sort of a shame that this default version has been crippled by issues basically off and on from the start.

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I used to have the very same issues. I loaded correctly (bags/PAX etc) CofG in the "mid" range around 25% MAC, all was well until I attempted to slow down and land. I had a stable ILS approach until the final phase and slow down, with full flaps, gear down etc. The aircraft then just sank below G/S and often crashed short of the runway. I noticed that stab trim was often "full up" deflection (no more up elevator available)

If you tried to "TOGA" out of the situation, you then over speeded with flaps/gear down.

The Neo was effectively stalling on approach.

Simplest work around without going deeper into the systems is to "cheat", lighten up the aircraft before departure, offload payload (bags/PAX) so that its basically empty weight plus fuel. That should allow a slower approach without stalling.

Lighter aircraft=reduced stall speeds (wing loading) 

However, the correct way to prevent this is to accurately complete all of the fields in the MCDU, including ZFW/ZFW CofG, fuel etc. (INIT B)

You should also activate "Approach phase" in the MCDU when nearing that stage (it should do this automatically, but doesn't always). That will give you correct VAPP and VLS speeds.

You can leave throttles in managed mode and the CL detent.

I would highly recommend the A32NX mod, but its more in depth, many systems have to be turned on initially, understood, so more opportunity to get things wrong if you dont complete checklist items (but many bugs sorted such as Mach/speed bug as you describe)

I have 120hrs in the A32NX now, not a single issue on approach for some time, even when fully loaded. Just follow VAPP and VLS speeds, activate approach phase.

Good luck. 

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I generally do not look at the loadout at all and just fly with whatever the game gives me. I have never had the issues described on landing although I do use auto-pilot in approach mode when I turn onto finals already with full flaps and the gear down. I always have the plane on auto-throttle and auto speed control. I just control the altitude on the flight and have autopilot on from about 30 seconds after take-off. I mainly use the in-game world map flight planner and apply sids, stars and ILS for the runway in that planner. The plane pretty much always flies down the glide slope and I tend to turn off autopilot at about 200ft and do the final land muself - normally pretty smooth. I pretty much fly exclusively the Airbus flybywire version but start at the end of the take off runway as I don't get too much excitement from the start-up check list.

A video of a short flight of mine here - although I messed up the manual take-off and landing, for the latter tried full auto landing and it was not too happy!!

CJ

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Check and make sure your flight model is set to Modern. I inadvertently had set mine to Legacy which made landing far more difficult for me.

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1 hour ago, Ash624 said:

I used to have the very same issues. I loaded correctly (bags/PAX etc) CofG in the "mid" range around 25% MAC, all was well until I attempted to slow down and land. I had a stable ILS approach until the final phase and slow down, with full flaps, gear down etc. The aircraft then just sank below G/S and often crashed short of the runway. I noticed that stab trim was often "full up" deflection (no more up elevator available)

If you tried to "TOGA" out of the situation, you then over speeded with flaps/gear down.

The Neo was effectively stalling on approach.

Simplest work around without going deeper into the systems is to "cheat", lighten up the aircraft before departure, offload payload (bags/PAX) so that its basically empty weight plus fuel. That should allow a slower approach without stalling.

Lighter aircraft=reduced stall speeds (wing loading) 

However, the correct way to prevent this is to accurately complete all of the fields in the MCDU, including ZFW/ZFW CofG, fuel etc. (INIT B)

You should also activate "Approach phase" in the MCDU when nearing that stage (it should do this automatically, but doesn't always). That will give you correct VAPP and VLS speeds.

You can leave throttles in managed mode and the CL detent.

I would highly recommend the A32NX mod, but its more in depth, many systems have to be turned on initially, understood, so more opportunity to get things wrong if you dont complete checklist items (but many bugs sorted such as Mach/speed bug as you describe)

I have 120hrs in the A32NX now, not a single issue on approach for some time, even when fully loaded. Just follow VAPP and VLS speeds, activate approach phase.

Good luck. 

I think you nailed the issue.  I remember now on the last flight that my vref approach speed( magenta number on the speed tape) was something like 222 knots which I thought was a mistake.  Your answer clarified that it seems I need to just lower initial weight.  Seems like that is a calling the higher stall speeds.  I don’t really understand though why this is happening and it seems that the game needs to work on weight and balance issues.

 

Appreciate the help guys and gals!  I’m gonna try the mod version at some point.  Where can I get that?

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