FSDT Vancouver big update

[abrams_tank 7,418]

3 hours ago, UAL4life said:

Why anyone would use Microsoft’s half assed market place is beyond me. Better to support the developer 100% and have access to updates the moment they are released. 

The whole point of the marketplace is so you have everything centralized in one place so installing is easy.  If I purchase directly from 20 different vendors, that could be 20 different installers and that is a big mess, especially if I have to reinstall MSFS one day.  When I install apps on my IPhone, I get them all from the Apple app store and I don't run around to 20 different websites to figure out how to pay and download the installer (even working with 20 different payment processes is also a pain in the butt).

And it’s not like the developer doesn’t get paid too. The developer will get their money as well, but just a little less.

As for Microsoft/Asobo getting their cut, I’m fine with that because MSFS won’t be a 10 year project if they don’t get their cut.  The day Microsoft stops making money from MSFS is the day they abandon MSFS like they did to FSX.  So I hope MSFS makes money from more copies sold, from possible entry into the commercial market, and from getting their cut in the marketplace, so they can continue improving MSFS for the next 10 years.  Yes, continual improvement of MSFS, fixing the bugs of MSFS, adding more features to MSFS is a huge benefit to the players of MSFS.  What you are suggesting is that Microsoft make $0 after the release of MSFS, which means they will throw MSFS under the bus and stop supporting it just like they did to FSX. 

Not to mention that if Microsoft sees MSFS as a huge financial success over a 10 year period, that will prompt Microsoft to make a successor to MSFS and we will get MSFS 2 in 10 years time.

Edited October 27, 2020 by abrams_tank

[abrams_tank 7,418]

47 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

The marketplace supports regional prices, which makes these add-ons cheaper of users in different countries.

Supporting Asobo/MS and the platform as a whole also makes sense.

Pesonally, I do it because it is more practical. In case you have an Android phone, do you buy your Apps directly from developers or purchase them from the Play Store?

Absolutely agree with you.

People want Microsoft/Asobo to support MSFS for the next 10 years.  People don't want to give Microsoft any additional money.

Which is it? Microsoft/Asobo ain't going to support MSFS for the next 10 years if they start losing money on MSFS.

[F737MAX 5,604]

2 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

And it’s not like the developer doesn’t get paid too. The developer will get their money as well, but just a little less.

As for Microsoft/Asobo getting their cut, I’m fine with that because MSFS won’t be a 10 year project if they don’t get their cut.  The day Microsoft stops making money from MSFS is the day they abandon MSFS like they did to FSX.  So I hope MSFS makes money from more copies sold, from possible entry into the commercial market, and from getting their cut in the marketplace, so they can continue improving MSFS for the next 10 years.

2 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

Which is it? Microsoft/Asobo ain't going to support MSFS for the next 10 years if they start losing money on MSFS.

That's an interesting couple of takes!

Microsoft, who have already sold over 1 million licences of MSFS are going to lose money on it? It hasn't even reached the Xbox consoles yet.
While I get that Game Pass is a thing, the monthly pricing of that more than covers the costs that go into game development, MS' server costs, etc. and still leaves them with healthy profits.

Microsoft can (and will) get their 30% - 50% cut from 3rd party add-ons from other people.
For a little bit of extra work on my part, I'm willing to buy directly from the developers that I like, in order to support them, rather than a $1.6 trillion business that took in $125 billion in revenue last year.

It's a little disappointing that a few hundred keen flight simmers here might not think likewise in supporting the creative developers directly and give them a bit extra, rather than funnelling it to the tech behemoth like millions of gamers do every day.

[edpatino 1,964]

It’s surprising how easy a thread about an airport update is going anywhere except to the airport itself 🤣

Cheers, Ed

[abrams_tank 7,418]

17 minutes ago, F737NG said:

That's an interesting couple of takes!

Microsoft, who have already sold over 1 million licences of MSFS are going to lose money on it? It hasn't even reached the Xbox consoles yet.
While I get that Game Pass is a thing, the monthly pricing of that more than covers the costs that go into game development, MS' server costs, etc. and still leaves them with healthy profits.

Microsoft can (and will) get their 30% - 50% cut from 3rd party add-ons from other people.
For a little bit of extra work on my part, I'm willing to buy directly from the developers that I like, in order to support them, rather than a $1.6 trillion business that took in $125 billion in revenue last year.

It's a little disappointing that a few hundred keen flight simmers here might not think likewise in supporting the creative developers directly and give them a bit extra, rather than funnelling it to the tech behemoth like millions of gamers do every day.

So do you have a source about the 50% cut from 3rd party add-ons?  Because I call your bluff on that.  In most marketplaces like this, the cut would be around 15% to 20%, especially if there is an option to go straight to the 3rd party developer.  If 3rd party developers lost 50% to the MSFS marketplace, they have no incentive to release their add on in the Microsoft marketplace.  The fact that 3rd party developers are releasing in the MSFS marketplace is an indication that the cut is reasonable and it's worth it for the 3rd party developer to release there.  Microsoft also knows if the cut they charge is too high, 3rd party developers won't release anything in the MSFS marketplace this so they likely have set the cut they get to a reasonable amount.

From a business standpoint, the maximum amount of profit Microsoft can get from MSFS, if they don't have the marketplace and if they don't intend to enter the commercial market either is to stop further development of MSFS after the X-Box release.  Because why bother spending more money on MSFS if the return they get dwindles over time?  That's exactly what happened with FSX - Microsoft did 2 patches with FSX, and then said goodbye because they didn't see any further revenue gains from FSX.  That was because FSX didn't have a marketplace.

The reason Microsoft and Asobo have a 10 year plan for MSFS, unlike FSX, is because they see further revenue after the release of MSFS, especially with the marketplace.  Microsoft never had a 10 year plan for FSX because there wasn't a marketplace for FSX so they knew the revenue for FSX would dry up after release. 

The fact that people like you think Microsoft/Asobo have an indefinite amount of money to keep developing MSFS and can pay for the servers that MSFS runs on (ie. the server to stream all that Bing data for scenery) is comical.  That's not how businesses work. If there was no marketplace and no further revenue for MSFS, it's in Microsoft's best interest to issue one or two patches after the X-Box release and then call it quits just like they did with FSX (maybe keep the servers to stream the Bing data scenery for a few years, but not forever since that costs $$$).

Edited October 27, 2020 by abrams_tank

[F737MAX 5,604]

37 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

the cut would be around 15% to 20%

In a flight sim-specific context, do you have a source for that either?

The reason for selling through Marketplace is exposure. The chance of a casual purchase is significantly increased. Developers are scrambling to try and make some money after a year of a slump in sales of their products.

Anyway, you've completely missed the point. MS will get their cut of any add-on through their own Marketplace when the more 'casual' flight simmers and Xbox 'Gamers' purchase add-ons in-game. They far, far outnumber how many are reading the Avsim forums. They are also unlikely to know and nor care who makes each add-on, making it a very simple buy/no buy decision.

For avid flight simmers, (anyone that bothers to take part on FS forums, posts on social media, just generally gives a word not allowed about what add-ons look like, how they perform, how they integrate with other add-ons when trying to obtain the most realistic experience possible), how profitable 3rd party developers are will make a big impact on what quality of new products are released and how frequently that occurs.

However, A few hundred extra direct sales through developers' own stores rather than MS' Marketplace may make a huge impact, allowing a developer to: go to full-time development; hire more staff; or buy new software tools. In choosing convenience of the MS Marketplace, the chance of these potential outcomes occurring is significantly reduced.
For MS, missing out on their cut on add-ons from a few hundred simmers will barely cause a ripple in the amount of revenue made from MSFS.
 

Edited October 27, 2020 by F737NG

[romoni 12]

Thank You for this update. ILS landing works perfect now.

Rolf

[abrams_tank 7,418]

15 minutes ago, F737NG said:

In a flight sim-specific context, do you have a source for that either?

Anyway, you've completely missed the point. MS will get their cut of any add-on through their own Marketplace when the more 'casual' flight simmers and Xbox 'Gamers' purchase add-ons in-game. They far, far outnumber how many are reading the Avsim forums. They are also unlikely to know and nor care who makes each add-on, making it a very simple buy/no buy decision.

For avid flight simmers, (anyone that bothers to take part on FS forums, posts on social media, just generally gives a word not allowed about what add-ons look like, how they perform, how they integrate with other add-ons when trying to obtain the most realistic experience possible), how profitable 3rd party developers are will make a big impact on what quality of new products are released and how frequently that occurs.

A few hundred extra direct sales through developers' own stores rather than MS' Marketplace may make a huge impact, allowing a developer to: go to full-time development; hire more staff; or buy new software tools. In choosing convenience of the MS Marketplace, the chance of these potential outcomes occurring is significantly reduced.
For MS, missing out on their cut on add-ons from a few hundred simmers will barely cause a ripple in the amount of revenue made from MSFS.

First and foremost, Microsoft's cut is most likely 15% to 20%.  At the maximum, it may be 30% but probably not beyond that.  The higher Microsoft's cut is, the more incentive developers have to skip the marketplace and just host their mods on their own website.  Microsoft knows they can't set the cut they get too high or else 3rd parties won't submit their mods to MSFS's marketplace.   The fact that 3rd party developers are releasing both on their website and on the marketplace is a sign that they are comfortable with the cut Microsoft is getting.  

And I think differently from you.  The health of MSFS will lead to more 3rd party developers entering the market to make mods for MSFS.  Flight joysticks have sold out world wide and there is a huge backup order for flight joysticks, because of MSFS.  Other companies that never made flight joysticks before will look into this and consider jumping into the flight joystick market, so that means more variety for us consumers to choose from.

The same with new 3rd party developers for MSFS.  Some companies will see MSFS add ons sell quite well, and will consider developing for MSFS when they never considered developing any add ons for flight simulators before.  That gives us even more choice as consumers.  In addition, there may have been some existing 3rd party developers (especially the smaller ones that are less established) that were on the verge of bankruptcy because their sales for P3D & X-Plane wasn't enough to pay for the bills. With MSFS, these 3rd party developers have a nice fresh stream of revenue to keep them going in business for years ahead.

So I don't mind if Microsoft gets a cut (if Microsoft is getting 50% as you claim, then I would think differently but I doubt it is even close to that - 15% to 20% is the most likely scenario). If it means keeping MSFS going for 10 years with more fixes and more new features for us simmers, if it means growing the flight simulator market & industry to benefit us all because we have more choice as consumers, that's a win win for everyone  And the 3rd developers will also get a nice profit from the marketplace. 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by abrams_tank

[crosswind 825]

I rather buy from developers directly.  Asobo/MS already got my money for the platform, and it is sad to say but the Microsoft Store support is atrocious to say the least. 

I made a purchase for a Carenado product (from the MSFS store) for  which I never got the download link, emailed the developer for assistance and he advised that anything purchased through the MS Store will have to be dealt with through the FS 2020 support system. 

Contacted MS FS support via email and it took them eight days for them to respond, only for them to tell me its not their problem either and I should direct my issue to the Microsoft store support. 

I spoke to five different people who were clueless as to how to fix the issue, and was eventually given the tech support number for xbox gaming.  Called Xbox tech support and their telephone systems are being upgraded so they were not available for phone support.

Called the bank and reversed the order.

I am all for supporting other developers if they have a product that I am interested in, but its very likely I would not make that mistake again for that developers products or any other if having to go through the MS Store.  Possible it was just a stroke of bad luck, but service is key and in this case it was lacking from all points of contact.

Anyway this is about an update for a well anticipated airport so I'll have to check it out.

Thanks @virtuali

[F737MAX 5,604]

3 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

The health of MSFS will lead to more 3rd party developers entering the market to make mods for MSFS.

18 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

The same with new 3rd party developers for MSFS.  Some companies will see MSFS add ons sell quite well, and will consider developing for MSFS when they never considered developing any add ons for flight simulators before.  That gives us even more choice as consumers.

Where did I say either of these points wouldn't be the case?

You keep banging the drum for Microsoft's Marketplace without acknowledging that 3rd party developers are desperate for sales - they'll take anything at the moment. Why do you think so many have paired-up with Orbx in the past few months?

I'm not advocating that *everyone* should buy add-ons directly from developers. Instead, I'm suggesting that a small percentage of total MSFS users (i.e. us avid simmers) should try to buy directly instead. That could make a big difference to developers and allow us to continue having the choice of quality products that we are used to, rather than 'good enough' for the masses that may occur later on.

MSFS is popular and Microsoft will get their profits from the much larger group of casual users. You needn't be concerned for the long-term viability of the platform based on add-on sales. The sales through Marketplace will increase if Asobo continues to make improvements to the sim and attracts even more casual and serious simmers alike.

[steve310002 1,198]

15 hours ago, virtuali said:

Hello, we just released a massive update for our Vancouver for MSFS.

I appreciate the effort you put into updates but I have been disappointed with the fact that Key West is still not updated on the MS Marketplace whilst other developer's products have been updated. Clearly something has gone amiss. Please can you contact MS to ask about Key West and the updates you submitted weeks ago as I get the feeling they have been completely forgotten about by the team responsible for updating the store. It's very frustrating after having purchased the product in good faith to still have people floating in the air in version 1.0 and none of the additional scenery you kindly added. Thanks.

[F737MAX 5,604]

29 minutes ago, crosswind said:

Anyway this is about an update for a well anticipated airport so I'll have to check it out.

Hope to be flying a certain turboprop at this CYVR scenery at some point!
Both are on my ever-growing MSFS wishlist.

[abrams_tank 7,418]

19 minutes ago, F737NG said:

You needn't be concerned for the long-term viability of the platform based on add-on sales. 

The "viability of the platform" is exactly what I'm concerned about.  Because from past history, Microsoft has abandoned their flight simulator before with FSX.  As a consumer who can make a difference, I don't mind if Microsoft makes a little money from me, provided they stick to their promise and support MSFS for the next 10 years.

[virtuali 4,421]

17 minutes ago, steve310002 said:

I appreciate the effort you put into updates but I have been disappointed with the fact that Key West is still not updated on the MS Marketplace whilst other developer's products have been updated

I've got word from Microsoft the update has been released yesterday night. 

Edited October 27, 2020 by virtuali

[steve310002 1,198]

8 minutes ago, virtuali said:

I've got word from Microsoft the update has been released yesterday night. 

That's great. Thank you!