38 minutes ago, himmelhorse said:

Dominique_K

Thank you so very much for your very informative response. I actually learnt nothing from it, and I remain curious.

You are very wrong with your assumption as well.  If this is indeed a dead horse and overbeaten, it might have been a little more helpful to provide a link. I am very much aware that there has been much discussion about the simmers vs gamers topic, but my query is NOT about that at all. I simply want to know if serious simmers use XBOX. 

I wonder why things get so personal so very quickly.

Tony

One more thing ...If you check my topic history you might find that I am much more likely to be moderate rather than inflammatory.  

This a thread about default airliners vs Study level  ones not about your "query". Instead of hijacking a thread, start your own. 

Dom

GF

Tony

Being a PC or an XBOX doesn't really matter, what matters is what you do with it. If the XBOX gets the same addons, can make use of a keyboard, joystick, pedals, etc then how is it any different from a PC?

Sure it will attract kids and gamers but they will get fed up of the "game" quickly enough (not that i care, i fly strictly online on IVAO and that acts as a filter of sorts) and only "true simmers" will eventually remain as those have a passion for the hobby whereas gamers "play n move on".

I hope this made sense.

Edited November 8, 20205 yr by Nuno Pinto

Nuno Pinto,

So much better than D_Ks response.

I am aware of all of this. however, despite his response, we are still talking about whether the airliners are actually relevant in every sense of the word, to xbox users. 

Does XBOX fulfil all the dreams and desires of a simmer (hardcore or not) 

I do NOT have XBOX nor aspire to owning one as I only use my gaming computer for flight simming.  As such I have no idea of its capabilities or relevance to Hardcore Simming, which is where I am at.  The XBOX has obvious advantages for other "games".

Regards

Tony

 

11 minutes ago, himmelhorse said:

Nuno Pinto,

So much better than D_Ks response.

I am aware of all of this. however, despite his response, we are still talking about whether the airliners are actually relevant in every sense of the word, to xbox users. 

Does XBOX fulfil all the dreams and desires of a simmer (hardcore or not) 

I do NOT have XBOX nor aspire to owning one as I only use my gaming computer for flight simming.  As such I have no idea of its capabilities or relevance to Hardcore Simming, which is where I am at.  The XBOX has obvious advantages for other "games".

Regards

Tony

 

Xbox Series X will have roughly the performance of i7 with 3080 for MSFS 2020. So pretty high. As it is only £450 then this is very attractive. It has the real advantage that the developers can completely optimise the game to work with it to its best ability. This is because its exact specs and capabilities are fixed unlike when they develop for PC.

Downside to the Xbox is that it will only work with control peripherals that have an Xbox lock chip inside. Normally such devices will work on Xbox and PC only. Note that PC peripherals will NOT work on Xbox unless they have this chip. I note that Honeycomb is releasing a new yoke next year with this chip inside but if you own the existing one it will not work. One slight upside in this is that is if peripherals chain - quite common for rudder pedals/throttles to plug in the back of the joystick/throttle then it can be that just the device connected to the console needs the lock chip.

The console car racing sim world is much more developed and their are a huge number of extremely serious racers for them with impressive rigs (£2500 steering wheels!). Do not under estimate how many people will use the Xbox Series X for serious flight simming and how big an increase that will make to the sim fan base.

CJ

Edited November 8, 20205 yr by CJ1045

Been flying flight sims for well over 20 years.  The A320 in this game is terrible.  Not because it’s a bad plane, it has loads of potential, but because the programmers crippled it by terrible coding/implementation.  The autopilot can’t hold altitude, vertical speed is a disaster, auto throttle vs altitude is a mess, pitch controlling altitude at the expense of responding to altitude setting( meaning the plane pitches up to slow down first rather than decreasing throttle) and this is before all the bugs like the wing drop on approach, incorrect stall settings, incorrect stall protection activation and so on.

Id pay even more money right now for any 3rd party airliner because the ones in the game are poorly done.

19 minutes ago, jspilot said:

Not because it’s a bad plane, it has loads of potential, but because the programmers crippled it by terrible coding/implementation. 

 

I do wonder to what extent is it bad coding, given that they are presumably aware that free and payware developers

have picked up the slack in the past.

 

Not judging the default airliners BTW. Not used it yet and there do seem to be workaround

options in many cases.

Edited November 8, 20205 yr by icewater5
Afterthought on original post.

3 hours ago, Dominique_K said:

This a thread about default airliners vs Study level  ones not about your "query". Instead of hijacking a thread, start your own. 

Yes, my OP wasn't making any judgement as to the quality of the default airliners or who were considered simmers vs gamers or whatever it turned into, But so it goes, gosh I might be relegated to the gamer category since I want a simpler analog airliner 🙂

13 minutes ago, desbean said:

Yes, my OP wasn't making any judgement as to the quality of the default airliners or who were considered simmers vs gamers or whatever it turned into, But so it goes, gosh I might be relegated to the gamer category since I want a simpler analog airliner 🙂

A 732 is an analog airliner and can be anything but simple to land. What I like in an airliner is the "inertia" (not sure this is the proper word). You drive a small prop, your numbers are not what the should be, you can rectify pretty fast if your are not too much out of the envelope. In a jetliner, everything takes time, the turn radius is larger etc. I find flying a 732 with a simple autopilot challenging.

 

1 hour ago, desbean said:

Yes, my OP wasn't making any judgement as to the quality of the default airliners or who were considered simmers vs gamers or whatever it turned into,

Might note help, but i saw that there is some kind of AI assistance for mfs

To get that it said click the pilot on the head??

Might be worth a try

6 hours ago, himmelhorse said:

Nuno Pinto,

So much better than D_Ks response.

I am aware of all of this. however, despite his response, we are still talking about whether the airliners are actually relevant in every sense of the word, to xbox users. 

Does XBOX fulfil all the dreams and desires of a simmer (hardcore or not) 

I do NOT have XBOX nor aspire to owning one as I only use my gaming computer for flight simming.  As such I have no idea of its capabilities or relevance to Hardcore Simming, which is where I am at.  The XBOX has obvious advantages for other "games".

Regards

Tony

 

I think you have to divorce yourself from the simmer/gamer prejudice and assumptions.  Consoles and PC's are platforms.  The additional "input" capabilities from consoles and PC's have been what primarily set them apart in the past.  That is changing.  Xbox One and PS 4 allow keyboards and HOTAS stick and throttle capability already.

But one thing that consoles have over PC's is uniformity of platform.  That is, the program will operate the same on all like consoles uniformly.

If you have noticed Microsoft's approach to xbox, and gaming in general (and yes, hate to break it to you, MSFS is a GAME) is that it should not matter how you consume it.  Console, laptop, Desktop, or android.  Sony is betting the farm on the console.  Microsoft, the ecosystem, which is why they are trying to make Game Pass the future of how you consume games.  And their approach isn't without merit.  Subscription music is now the method of choice for music consumption in many cases.  Disney+, Amazon Prime+ and Netflix, are showing how subscription video is working.  Microsoft is trying the same method for games.

Microsoft is asking people to buy into a gaming ecosystem, not a specific platform.  

So, yes, if Series X or future console is expandable enough to allow me to plug peripherals to make a reasonable sim environment, then I see no reason why someone might not put a system X under their desk or behind their TV.  If the platform is expandable enough to allow a reasonable amount of third party enhancements.  Again, I see no reason why someone might choose to pay $500.00 for a product you don't have to spend countless hours "tweaking" to get best performance out of.

The amount of money I put out to upgrade MSFS so that I could have "reasonable" 30FPS with high to ultra settings is already in excess the cost of a system X which I am afraid will blow my current PC out of the water in MSFS performance (CPU, Memory and GPU).  

The gap between PC gaming and console gaming has "narrowed" and continues to do so with each generation, so it's not inconceivable that in the future, people might not be willing to pay 2 Grand over 1/4 the cost, especially if those people aren't interested in building a three screen cockpit with 5 different standalone panels.

And if VR DOES take off, so that you can have an all immersive environment, which allows you to ditch the in home cockpit altogether,  Does it matter if the system running it has a Dell label or an Xbox label on it outside the hood?

Edited November 8, 20205 yr by wthomas33065

2 hours ago, wthomas33065 said:

So, yes, if Series X or future console is expandable enough to allow me to plug peripherals to make a reasonable sim environment, then I see no reason why someone might not put a system X under their desk or behind their TV.  If the platform is expandable enough to allow a reasonable amount of third party enhancements.  Again, I see no reason why someone might choose to pay $500.00 for a product you don't have to spend countless hours "tweaking" to get best performance out of.

I guess this actually answers my question. As a non user of XBOX, I have no idea of its capabilities.  I was, in a nutshell, simply wondering if XBOX had the capabilities of attracting a "Hardcore" simmer, and that is all I was asking. 

As stated, this was never a conversation about gamers vs simmers and never did I intend it to be.

In hindsight, I suppose it was destined to attract a high handed, irrelevant and largely unnecessary response, and I regret eliciting this type of reaction. I find it really sad that one must ponder for some time, to find the correct words to ask a simple question which is not going to make some of the community see red.

I will put this to bed now with thanks for all the reasonable responses.

Tony

On 11/8/2020 at 12:11 AM, CJ1045 said:

I would disagree - when it launches on Xbox then you will not be able to use mods like Flybywire so they will have to be improved.

By the way, this was the remark which launched my simple request.

Moria15, Thanks you for your reply too. So much more helpful and precisely the type of information that I was seeking.

Regards

Tony

8 hours ago, CJ1045 said:

Xbox Series X will have roughly the performance of i7 with 3080 for MSFS 2020. So pretty high.

More like a lower clocked Ryzen 7 3700X with a GTX 2080 Ti.

3 hours ago, dilore said:

More like a lower clocked Ryzen 7 3700X with a GTX 2080 Ti.

Nope as the game will be optimized completely for the Series X so a higher effective performance.