Mathijs Kok Feedback on PBR issues with Aerosoft product(s)

[mpo910 2,112]

Quote Mathijs Kok/Aerosoft on my question if A330 will need an PBR update and if yes, when we could expect this to happen.

Unfortunately as long as LM is a moving target they are not willing to update. How long this will be.....is written in the stars. For me it seems as if Aerosoft is not communicating with LM at the moment. Why? Because if they would, they could answer this question, regardless the answer´s content.

They are obviously "complaining" the "0 EUR" revenue on this platform but on the other hand not doing something to make their products attractive (again). In fact, they state their products are compatible with V5, which is NOT the case for some of them.

How can we proceed on this? Does someone have good contacts to speak with them? 

Marcus

QUOTE Mathijs Kok:

"When Lockheed settles on a settings that is documented in the SDK we'll check what we can change. For now we are not willing to spend  money on a moving target.  Not with sales for that platform being next to zero".

Link: https://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/157193-p3d-v51-hf1-pbr-textures-seem-to-need-an-update-glossy-film-visible/&do=findComment&comment=1002891

MY REPLY ON THIS:

"Thanks for your Reply @Mathijs Kok 

Isn´t that the case right now? When will that "settles" be? This means your A330 product is not compatible with P3D V5 at this moment and for uncertain time. Right?Is there a Timespan which you can communicate (days, weeks months would be enough feedback for me?

I do really understand this from your point of view. But hopefully you see also the users point of view. They are "hanging" in the air for an unknown time which surely does not lead to raising revenue.

I hope you will support us further and update the products which are announced as "compatible" within a couple of days/weeks. I do like the fact LM does enhance the platform and SDK. I do also like the fact it is getting really good right now. But only if the 3.Party do follow and update their products too. Otherwise the platform P3D will be usable, but worthless  and Aerosoft products are not usable and therefore also  worthless. That would be a pity. "

 

[kevinfirth 1,392]

rather looks like he's deleted your reply...

[787flyer 633]

Yes its an unfortunate position Aerosoft are taking when you compare this with the likes of Hifi, that even while P3D v5 is a moving target (I do agree with Matthias K there) they continue to make product updates to keep the compatibility current. Hats off to Damian and team.

But... my personal opinion is, if Aerosoft continue to waver on their support for P3D (go read the forums of unresolved issues -its not just texture issues, its broken scenery, installers that dont work properly, Livery Managers that are broken etc ), guess what, I wont be purchasing their MSFS products when I do decide to move and that includes buying hardware products that I am currently considering.

What can we do you ask?

• Voice your concerns politely over at the Aerosoft forums.
• Provide the feedback to the sim community-at-large (online such as this forum, Facebook pages, Froogle but also media publishing  e.g. PC Pilot, FS Elite et al)
• Vote with your wallet.

Community feedback can work. I was interested to read that Orbx, having earlier in the year pretty much cancelled all plans for developing openLC Asia, now based on received feedback and a community poll have now revised their plans and will release landclass for the Asia region for P3D platform. Obviously for Orbx who have to run a sim business as well, have come to the conclusion that the P3D platform is not dead and are willing to make the investment because the payoff is there.

 

Regards,

[mpo910 2,112]

26 minutes ago, kevinfirth said:

rather looks like he's deleted your reply...

No not yet. They have to approve my posts because my honest but respectful feedback I gave was "caught" by one Dev who probably had a bad day 😉 

I did report issues with Objects shining through clouds and fog earlier this month. Lots of user reported this too and asked for feedback. They just stated with one sentence that it is a LM issue ad called this thing a "hyped thing which they would like to end" and closed the topic. After that Mathijs also asked for an apology if LM would solve it ;-).

Rob and others stated that it is not only a LM issue but LM is looking for solutions too. But 3. Party probably has to make updates to be fully compatible too. End is: LM solved the FOG issue...cloud issues remain. Means Objects still shining through thinner clouds and not blend well.

This ping pong did trigger me and I posted this at their support forum. And I was clear that I don´t like it if devs from company A and B are throwing the balls via their customers to eachother..... My post was a little longer. BUT respectful and honest.

It did not count....they gave me a lifetime penalty for that and now they have to approve my posts before make them visible for everyone. THAT is Aerosoft.

Over reacted.......both parties I think (me and them too)

Marcus

See how Aerosoft handles their customers and this post from me lead to a lifetime penalty....

----------------------------

HIS is how sim wings handle their customers who have problems with their products. I would like to share it here

https://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/156926-scenery-compatibility-issues-with-p3d-v5x-textures-simobjects-showing-through-fogclouds/&do=findComment&comment=1001807

Note his words "complete hype"

Quote from oPABST dev at Sim-Wings:

"To end the complite hype here: The Issue will be solved via Hotfix 1 for Prepar3D V5.1 !

So nothing to do from developer/product side, Lookheed Martin has seen, that it is in issue on there side and will fix it soon."

My reaction on this:

 

"It is a little bit a shame that a supplier does call these "personal views" regarding ISSUES they have, regardless if it is induced by 3.Party OR LM, "complete hype".

Nobody did rant here. All are just making clear they have issues with products they already paid for and which are called "compatible".

Most of us do own lots of "your" products and "your" work. On the screen it is not clear "where exactly" the issue has to be solved and has it´s fundament.

I personally would like to see general product-updates, even if I have to pay for it! We asked for PBR, we asked for sloped runways, material scripting, dynamic reflections, dynamic lights and so far and so on.

Now, at this moment, LM P3D V5.X has all of this "implemented". There are some outstanding examples of devs who do use this: MKStudios just released a very nice rendition of EFHK with all the prior called things implemented.

What I don´t like is, that due the fact some of us, not all, but some of the simmers smacked down the LM P3D as soon as MSFS was announced, but the ones who where holding to P3D, like me (and I have MSFS too), are not getting any attention anymore as the devs seem to follow this MSFS train....

Why can´t you do both? And at least, why can´t you support your existing customers?

These kind of feedback, as you gave here, are the ones which let me rethink twice where and from who to buy my products.

At a later moment, and that moment will likely come, MSFS is "updated" with airports from 3.Party, the revenue will "go backwards too"....and then you need all your customers.....probably also the ones you left behind at this moment.

Aerosoft has made very clear, that they will concentrate on MSFS as THIS IS the future sim.....THAT is a slap in the face for those who do not turn their backs to LM. I do not say it is not time to look at MSFS too. But it is not necessary to turn your back to a platform which has served us for years!

Please think about WHAT you post BEFORE you post.

I will NOT buy any of your products again. And I am sure a lot of simmers over here will think equal about this!

I can´t call this support nor customer service.....you have to be  1 step beyond and are 2 behind!

Marcus "

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by mpo910

[Chock 17,769]

19 minutes ago, aldridgem said:

What can we do you ask?

• Vote with your wallet.

Surely doing that would actually serve to further confirm their contention regarding lack of sales?

[d.tsakiris 417]

Not if one expands one's vote to all their products, meaning MSFS add-ons also...

Aerosoft has - at least to me - become an unattractive vendor. I think other companies have a more balanced view of what's going on.

[cannow 61]

the update shedule has been the same since day1 in p3d . MS2020 updates even more .They just dont have any planes on it yet.

[edpatino 1,960]

Aerosoft?. I wouldn’t really care too much about their products. Very long development cycle and too many issues after their release.
Let’s see what will happen with their CRJ for MSFS....

Cheers,

Ed

[Christopher Low 5,332]

Is Mathijs exaggerating a bit when he states that P3D sales are now "next to zero"? I guess he means "when compared to Microsoft Flight Simulator", because I have not seen any other scenery developers state that sales have been reduced to that extent.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Christopher Low

[rob0203 686]

And MSFS is not a moving platform with a non existing SDK and updates all the time?

The clouds in Prepar3d starting to look also much better then in Msfs in my honoust opinion!

Edited November 22, 2020 by rob0203

[skylane182 12]

Thank you all for making this transparent to the community. Sadly it's a common and longtime known behaviour at aerosoft that they delete or won't approve posts with critical opinions. Is it their right? Of course, it's their own forum. But is it the right way to handle it?

[Fludo 22]

31 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

Is Mathijs exaggerating a bit when he states that P3D sales are now "next to zero"? I guess he means "when compared to Microsoft Flight Simulator", because I have not seen any other scenery developers state that sales have been reduced to that extent.

It's sad to say but I am sure that he is simply lying and using that as an excuse to not support their P3D products. Just recently they released Ben Gurion International Airport as well as Hamburg, both stayed at the top selling rank for more than one week in Simmarket, are you sure that's 0 revenue Mr. Kok? They even sell DD's Narita at their site, this one was a top seller too for more than one week, also 0 revenue?

Even if 0 revenue was the case, which is not, they've been selling products under the "P3D V5" compatible tag and still are, I find it amusing that they are so clear about not supporting those products. I will go with @aldridgem's number 3 option and vote with my wallet (I was ready to buy EDDM and PANC during black friday), there's your 0 revenue.

Also Mr. Kok should ask FSimstudios and MK how they recent releases of CYVR and Helsinki have been so far, excellent products with extensive use of P3D's capabilities, I think he would be "surprised"...

[micstatic 4,301]

I’m really not a fan too much of aerosoft s P3d titles. For a large distributor and maker of addons they just aren’t that relevant to me. It’s obvious why their sales numbers are down in P3d. It’s pretty obvious also that we’ve seen a large chunk of P3d and xplane users return back. Pmdg most recent news in their forum moving the delays to the right only accelerate this   

 

[phmcr 93]

Just to remind you and to put things into perspective, Aerosoft are official distributor of MSFS and I recall Kok was very happy with that as I assume he felt the future of Flightsimming was within reach. However, the level MSFS is in now has lowered the enthusiasm of the hardcore simmer to switch over

SImply check the opening screen of their website. It is all about MSFS.

[AnkH 2,233]

Aerosoft is one of those sim companies that forgot a long time ago that in business, you should follow the maxime: the customer is king... simple as that. They completely forgot that it is US customers keeping their business alive and that payback time will certainly come one day, if most customers are so annoyed by them that sales drop considerably.