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mpo910

Mathijs Kok Feedback on PBR issues with Aerosoft product(s)

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Funny reply stating that P3D is a moving target when MSFS is, well, a moving target.

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FS2020's sudden appearance in the market has shocked everyone. As a result, there's a lot of activity that is not necessarily beneficial to everyone. Take for example, a developer who was working on LM project for the past year see that sales have come to a halt. Does he continue, or does he pause, or does he embark on a new project for FS2020. These are not easy questions or decision from a developer's perspective. As a small hardware developer, I also decided to pause everything and take stock of the situation. The bottom line is that those developers, for whom the product is something more than just an airport, have many variables to deal with, all of which have serious financial implications. For a one or two men business, it's a big deal. The decision on MS to put out a product for which non scenery products could be developed quickly is having a serious impact on most developers---- this is my opinion. When this happens, customers feel it in different ways, including customer service, upgrades, etc, etc.

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3 minutes ago, flyforever said:

FS2020's sudden appearance in the market has shocked everyone. As a result, there's a lot of activity that is not necessarily beneficial to everyone. Take for example, a developer who was working on LM project for the past year see that sales have come to a halt. Does he continue, or does he pause, or does he embark on a new project for FS2020. These are not easy questions or decision from a developer's perspective. As a small hardware developer, I also decided to pause everything and take stock of the situation. The bottom line is that those developers, for whom the product is something more than just an airport, have many variables to deal with, all of which have serious financial implications. For a one or two men business, it's a big deal. The decision on MS to put out a product for which non scenery products could be developed quickly is having a serious impact on most developers---- this is my opinion. When this happens, customers feel it in different ways, including customer service, upgrades, etc, etc.

Yes. But none of that have to lead to mistreating your existing customers.....and as my examples shows, even existing ones.

Both parties should be more respectful to each other. 

I do understand why this are hard times. But a company like that should always think about who is paying "your bills and salary". Times my change.....quicker as you can imagine, even for Aerosoft.

If MSFS offers a good "addon developing platform" for free addons and even a market for that...imagine what will happen with lots of customers who can decide to pay EUR 30 for a bad supported product which may look a little bit better....but paying nothing for a product which may look also very good to good does the trick.

You want to fight for a brought base........all customers count 


Regards,

Marcus P.

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While I neither uninstalled Prepar3d nor X-Plane nor AeroflyFS2 and will follow their development, I am convinced MSFS is the future for the foreseeable time.

I have been buying most Aerosoft MSFS products and expect to go on doing so. I have enough Prepar3d addons keeping my busy for years, if I want to. Given that I am not rich enough to stuff 4 simulators with addons in parallel, this means I had to stop buying Prepar3d ones, not only from Aerosoft but from other vendors, too. 

I know this is a Prepar3d forum, so I understand and accept your positions. However, let me remind you there might be large user groups outside this subforum not sharing your points of view. 

Further, again in view of this being a Prepar3d forum where I might be considered an invader, I will leave it with this reminder. No need to put me onto your blacklists.

Kind regards, Michael

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3 hours ago, simbol said:

[...]

Regarding the comments of P3D being a moving target, I don't get this.. MSFS is even worse.. 6 patches so far? Still no SDK completed.. And I don't get access so such patches before hand, despite of being under NDA with MS.. It is so bad I am considering not touching it until 2022.

[...]

Simbol, that's exactly what I was thinking and I'm glad to see this confirmed by a developer. Another thing is that I remember that the likes of Aerosoft used to praise LM for working actively on P3D, whereas FSX had not been developed at all. And now they complain that it's a moving target...? I agree with those earlier in the thread that eluded to a potential stake that Aerosoft may have directly or indirectly with MSFS. It's unfortunate that they do have a couple airports that are very high on my wishlist, including EDDH, EDDM and LLBG. I will still get these, but it's unlikely I will go to them for other products.

@pmb Just wanted to say that your frank and calm explanation are a breath of fresh air and I personally welcome such messages. On some things one has to simply agree to disagree, and that's fine!

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2 minutes ago, Benjamin J said:

Simbol, that's exactly what I was thinking and I'm glad to see this confirmed by a developer. Another thing is that I remember that the likes of Aerosoft used to praise LM for working actively on P3D, whereas FSX had not been developed at all. And now they complain that it's a moving target...? I agree with those earlier in the thread that eluded to a potential stake that Aerosoft may have directly or indirectly with MSFS. It's unfortunate that they do have a couple airports that are very high on my wishlist, including EDDH, EDDM and LLBG. I will still get these, but it's unlikely I will go to them for other products.

Indeed very nice airports. But to fly to/from them in a small prop ac instead of the normal jetliners .... ✈️

 


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Just now, GSalden said:

Indeed very nice airports. But to fly to/from them in a small prop ac instead of the normal jetliners .... ✈️

 

I mean their P3D incarnations where I can fly in and out of them in the PMDG 737NGXu 😉 I see no reason buying 'hub-size' airports in MSFS... yet.


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20 minutes ago, pmb said:

 I am convinced MSFS is the future for the foreseeable time.

 

Kind regards, Michael

It is but you dont then tell customers who are still buying their P3D products that they basically dont care about P3D. Thats what he is doing. He is focused on a new sim that they have zero aircraft released for. Its like a car dealer selling you a 2020 model but when you have a issue with it they say they are barely selling any 2020 models and are focused on 2021 models.

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26 minutes ago, pmb said:

While I neither uninstalled Prepar3d nor X-Plane nor AeroflyFS2 and will follow their development, I am convinced MSFS is the future for the foreseeable time.

I have been buying most Aerosoft MSFS products and expect to go on doing so. I have enough Prepar3d addons keeping my busy for years, if I want to. Given that I am not rich enough to stuff 4 simulators with addons in parallel, this means I had to stop buying Prepar3d ones, not only from Aerosoft but from other vendors, too. 

I know this is a Prepar3d forum, so I understand and accept your positions. However, let me remind you there might be large user groups outside this subforum not sharing your points of view. 

Further, again in view of this being a Prepar3d forum where I might be considered an invader, I will leave it with this reminder. No need to put me onto your blacklists.

Kind regards, Michael

Well explained and I do agree on some points as well.

But that is still not a wildcard to let hang your other customers who may not have jumped into MSFS at the moment. or at least not ONLY jumped to MSFS and still keep P3D using. P3D is growing too......with the decision to implement DX12 they showed me that they are willing to invest at least the upcoming year! And a P3D year brings lots of new stuff.....as well MSFS....but P3D did not stop.

My view is for sure not the benchmark! But I am not alone, as we see here. And for now Aerosoft my have found lots of "newcomers" and "rebuyers". But not unlimited.

Edited by mpo910

Regards,

Marcus P.

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38 minutes ago, GSalden said:

Indeed very nice airports. But to fly to/from them in a small prop ac instead of the normal jetliners .... ✈️

 

Lol at this. You can always tell on Vatsim who is flying what sim. Any props and A320N data tags are MSFS, everyone else is P3D and for sure the vast majority are P3D. I have tended to stay away from KBOS on Vatsim because for some reason that place is infested with MSFS prop's and ATC winds up extending your arrival or delaying departure because they are so slow. I knew that was going to happen with no airliners in MSFS. Looking like it will be 2022 before I see KBOS again!

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Eric 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, B777ER said:

Lol at this. You can always tell on Vatsim who is flying what sim. Any props and A320N data tags are MSFS, everyone else is P3D and for sure the vast majority are P3D. I have tended to stay away from KBOS on Vatsim because for some reason that place is infested with MSFS prop's and ATC winds up extending your arrival or delaying departure because they are so slow. I knew that was going to happen with no airliners in MSFS. Looking like it will be 2022 before I see KBOS again!

LOL nice humor


Regards,

Marcus P.

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Let's get back to the topic, which to be clear is *not* another P3D vs MSFS rehash.

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The truth is that the models for P3Dv5 (especially PBR) must use different set of textures than P3Dv4. LM changed lighting effects (interestingly, as he explains himself at the developers' request) here and if developer did not update textures (especially  "m: textures) it could be a big problem (too dark cockpits ect).

Here is example of my textures set for A2A Cub and how they look in P3Dv4 and v5 and after dedicated update for v5.

For v4 - was ok.

4vp58S3h.jpg

The same textures FROM v4 (very dark in v5) + after update - looks again OK in v5 now:

NTvRbSQh.jpg

.

Edited by YoYo

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The dark cockpit issue was flagged by developers from Leonardo, the bug was that pbr textures became darker and darker as you climb.

This bug is fixed now with HF1, the difference now is minimal and will not require any rework of textures. Developers from leonardo mad dog confirmed as fixed, so did kaii from AIGM with the external PBR models.

I made the point very clear to LM that reworking stuff for minor releases was not good as the benefits vs sales for 3rd party developers was not there.

However for platform jumps, (v4 vs V5) that is another story, we have to work on the same basis across other platforms anyway, for example from P3D to XP or P3D to MSFS.

So it is not unreasonable for LM to expect developers to have to update stuff with major releases.

Effects from V4 to V5 was a big change, I had to update around 300,000 effects across all addons I work with.. Nothing else I could do, was a lot of work with no extra income at that time .. But I didn't abandon P3D because of it.. 

S.

Edited by simbol
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2 hours ago, mpo910 said:

Yes. But none of that have to lead to mistreating your existing customers.....and as my examples shows, even existing ones.

Both parties should be more respectful to each other. 

I do understand why this are hard times. But a company like that should always think about who is paying "your bills and salary". Times my change.....quicker as you can imagine, even for Aerosoft.

If MSFS offers a good "addon developing platform" for free addons and even a market for that...imagine what will happen with lots of customers who can decide to pay EUR 30 for a bad supported product which may look a little bit better....but paying nothing for a product which may look also very good to good does the trick.

You want to fight for a brought base........all customers count 

I agree. I was just pointing out to the "shock" factor of the new sim. It caught everyone by surprise, and with the pandemic, the stress on businesses is abnormal. For example, with my little business, the china tradewar, pandemic, and the announcement of a particular hardware that competes with mine, reduced my business significantly, both in my ability to secure parts in a timely fashion, and responding to the new competition. I am still figuring all out. Fortunately, I don't do this to pay my family and mortgage. It's a pseudo hobby. That said, always treat your polite customers with the same courtesy.

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