Does Just Flight DC-10 work on Prepar3D v5?

[CaptKornDog 281]

Thank you.

[Samaritano 304]

Hey @MammyJammy thank  you for the guide. So far I have been able to install it and it loads. I am having an issue with sound. Is there a way for those of us that have FSUIPC installed via the addon xml method inside the Prepar3d V5 Add-ons folder to make the sounds work? Thanks for the great job with this bird.

I also noticed that you only use one file from the DC10SndInter zip folder. Is that correct?

Edited January 3, 2021 by Samaritano

[Mace 1,902]

Tonight I installed the ISG gauges (by Ernie Alston) as popups into my CLS/JF DC-10 within P3Dv5.1.  ISG (Integrated Simvionics) are a set of payware gauges, including FMS's that are updatable by Navigraph. Note that these are not super-hi-graphic-fidelity gauges.  They are designed to be functional above all else.  While this will not bring the PMDG MD-11 back to us, it at least gives us a hint of its goodness.  The ISG package also includes MD-11 style navigation displays etc. etc. so it's pretty ideal for making your DC-10 into an MD-10.  Thankfully, these gauges do appear to work in P3Dv5.

Since I just did this, I might as well write down in this thread a few tips on integrating the ISG gauges into the CLS/JF DC-10.  At least here at AVSIM I don't expect the thread to get archived so quickly, like this information was over at the old JustFlight forums:

1.  The ISG installer is called ISG-FSX.exe.  Or at least, the installer I get from simmarket is named that.  Don't be misled by the fact that the executable is still called "ISG-FSX.exe".  It is for P3D as well and yes you have the correct version.

2.  You must also download "isg187_x64.zip", as this contains the 64-bit gauge file you'll need.  At simmarket this comes as a separate file to download.  This isg1.gau file goes in your DC-10's /Gauges folder (i.e. for me, E:\Aircraft\JF_DC10\Gauges).

3.  I had to install the ISG-FSX.exe installer to my root P3Dv5 directory (i.e. E:\P3Dv5) or else the gauges did not work for me.  In other words, I initially tried to install the ISG stuff outside, in E:\FSTools\ISG, but then I couldn't get the FMS's to pick up the data for some reason.  I don't like putting things in the P3D root but sometimes you have to do what you have to do.  Anyway, this installation in the P3D root is what I had in P3Dv4.5 as well, so it's not like this is anything new.  Finally -- you merely need to tell the installer to install to your P3D root -- then the installer creates an ISG folder in there.  Caution.  If you specify "E:\P3Dv5\ISG" as the path, you will get E:\P3Dv5\ISG\ISG instead.  Just specify your sim root (i.e. for me, E:\P3Dv5).

4.  The ISG gauges are not easy to set up, if you've never done it before...and I would also say they require some working knowledge of panel.cfg files.  The documentation -- which is pretty good -- is a must.  And even there the docs fall short in some key details.  One key thing is, in your ISG install dir there is a subdir called "Aircraft", which holds aircraft perf files, and this must be called in your panel.cfg for that aircraft, as a 5th parameter in the gauge callout.   I have perf files for the DC-10-10 and DC-10-30, which are short enough that I could post in this thread if need be.  The FMS uses the data in those files to calculate speeds, weights, etc.

5.  VC integration.  Tonight, in my archive of DC-10 stuff, I found my VC panel.cfg that I was experimenting with 2 years ago.  I'll look into that next, but like I said earlier in this thread, I am not Mr. VC panel designer, so it's definitely amateur-hour for me when it comes to that.

[Mace 1,902]

Just now, Samaritano said:

Hey @MammyJammy thank  you for the guide. So far I have been able to install it and it loads. I am having an issue with sound. Is there a way for those of us that have FSUIPC installed via the addon xml method inside the Prepar3d V5 Add-ons folder to make the sounds work?

I could not.  I had to have FSUIPC installed to P3Dv5\Modules or else I couldn't get it to work.

[Samaritano 304]

3 minutes ago, Mace said:

I could not.  I had to have FSUIPC installed to P3Dv5\Modules or else I couldn't get it to work.

No problem. Thanks a lot.

[MammyJammy 124]

17 hours ago, Samaritano said:

Hey @MammyJammy thank  you for the guide. So far I have been able to install it and it loads. I am having an issue with sound. Is there a way for those of us that have FSUIPC installed via the addon xml method inside the Prepar3d V5 Add-ons folder to make the sounds work? Thanks for the great job with this bird.

I also noticed that you only use one file from the DC10SndInter zip folder. Is that correct?

@Samaritano The second file in the ZIP is the configuration you'll need to properly enable panel states.  The panel configuration file that ships with the DC-10 doesn't have all the variables in it for the aircraft, and also lacks the config flags to set panel states.  Copy the second file (dc10cls_config.ini) into the Gauges folder of your DC-10 install.  Rename the original as a backup before you do.

17 hours ago, Mace said:

Tonight I installed the ISG gauges (by Ernie Alston) as popups into my CLS/JF DC-10 within P3Dv5.1. 

...
5.  VC integration.  Tonight, in my archive of DC-10 stuff, I found my VC panel.cfg that I was experimenting with 2 years ago.  I'll look into that next, but like I said earlier in this thread, I am not Mr. VC panel designer, so it's definitely amateur-hour for me when it comes to that.

@Mace nice!  This is super helpful and I'll start drafting up including it into the modifications doc if you are OK with it.  I've hacked up several VCs in aircraft prior, mostly Carenado.  I used to fly with a flying club that had a few C172/182/206s with a bunch of nice equipment, so I modified the VCs of the Carenado birds to the same equipment.  It's almost the same as the 2D panels, with some nuance to deal with the 3D modeling artifacts.  You've convinced me to get the ISG gauges and start hacking.  DM/PM me and we can collaborate on it - My thought is to get the FMC working first, then "Frankenstein" an MD/DC-10 with a moving map nav on the captain's side.  From there, full MD-10, however some of the VC artifacts will make it difficult.

For the ISG gauges outside of the P3Dv5 folder, did you configure an add-on.xml with a Gauges component specified?  That's partially how the install directions for the DC-10 I've put together work, so there might be some hope there.

17 hours ago, Mace said:

I could not.  I had to have FSUIPC installed to P3Dv5\Modules or else I couldn't get it to work.

The Lua file should work the same as any other FSUIPC Lua file.  It likely needs to sit in the same directory as the FSUIPC6.DLL and FSUIPC6.ini files to work, where ever they are installed.  I can check the docs that accompany FSUIPC6 and mess with my install to see what happens.

[coastaldriver 915]

MammyJammy - Great effort and work you have done on this old bird. I have just switched to P3DV5 so a lot of this made it a lot easier to get this up and running again in P3DV5. Thank you. 

I did the original changes on this bird for FSX (via SOH aka BendFlyer). Now I have it running again in P3D I am revisiting some stuff. Namely the fuel quantities and weights. I know there was a variation in opinion on what is what for the DC-10 as far as fuel and weights is concerned but my research led me to discover that there were a variety of tank configurations and quantities possible - it depended upon what the customer specified or ordered. The other issue was passenger and freight loadings. This also led me to discover that the DC-10 had a very large underfloor capacity for standard containers so much so that you would never be able to load the max number of containers possible because it used up all the possible fuel and payload weight as well. 

I did put the Smith Honeywell FMC gauge into the FMC pedestal position and that worked quite well - however it has some problem bugs in it in P3D so I have taken it out again and reverted to the original FMC for the time being. I still think it is useable but it needs a hard look at and a lot of testing again. 

I still have issues with the performance. Even with the SGA air files the numbers are still out but the SGA air files are a vast improvement on the CLS versions. The climb performance is erratic still in terms of speed v power that is very slow at low levels - improves up to about F240 and then drops off again which is weird and I think is related to the engine parameters in the config file and the air file data tables. I have original pilot reports on the DC-10 and it was a sparkling performer right up to higher altitudes so this behaviour in this model still needs sorting. Again a lot of changing and fiddling. 

I also have not been able to get the de-ice system to work- the overhead airframe deice switch is inoperative for me and I have my doubts as to whether the inlet heat is working either. The aircraft config parameters are set correctly so it is possible a guage or switch issue as well. 

So I am still working on this old bird - once again and appreciate the time and trouble you took to spell this out for everyone in a clear and concise document as well. 

Yep it looks great and handles nicely in P3D and I am continously amazed by the work Kevin Alexander has done doing paints for this one, simply stunning output in quality and variety. 

 

 

 

 

[Luis Hernandez 569]

On 1/3/2021 at 4:17 AM, Mace said:

5.  VC integration.  Tonight, in my archive of DC-10 stuff, I found my VC panel.cfg that I was experimenting with 2 years ago.  I'll look into that next, but like I said earlier in this thread, I am not Mr. VC panel designer, so it's definitely amateur-hour for me when it comes to that.

In the old FS9 version I was able to replace the HSI with the ISG EHSI. However, I could never get rid of the two little windows above the mechanical HSI (the ones that show groundspeed and distance). I never cared about an EADI.

[coastaldriver 915]

Ok after much tinkering I have at last arrived at modifications to the aircraft configuration files for the DC-10-10, DC-10-30, and DC-10-40 that realigns the aircraft specifications with the air files for the various model airframes and engine. I will upload in about a week the new config files which should go well with the advice and info from Mammy Jammy and his modifications. 

The DC-10-10 now has the sparkling performance ( relatively) it demonstrated in the pilot reviews I have and climbs like a steam train now to F300 and above. The turbine values are now reset to properly reflect the actual engines power output fuel flow etc. Not perfectly but good enough for time being. You need the SGA air file to make it work. 

The DC10-30 has much improved climb performance now and will at full load reach F300 to F330 (temp dependant) much more realistically. All these older birds always stepped climbed at max take off weights, generally to F280 then burn off some fuel and up a few more thousand feet. You should be able to reach about F380-400 by mid weight now. I have also amended the fuel tankage and weights and passenger loadings. The latter arrangement is a midpoint of what most operators selected. It has to be remembered that Douglas were able to change the configuration of these aircraft when building without much problem. So you could have up to 10 plus different passenger cabin seating arrangements and similar different fuel tank quantities depending on who the operator was and what they requested. I have selected those used in the DC-10-30 operated by Air New Zealand and JAL which is fairly representative of the long range DC-10-30s. The had small first class cabin seating and large economy sections. 

The DC-10-40 is now a little bit more sluggish. It effectively was a DC10-30 with detuned engines, in other words operators wanted the capacity of the 30 model but not the higher fuel burn and engine maintenance issues so they were not faster and heavier but simply had lower powered engines fitted (detuned or derated). 

I might add that there is still a bug with the instrument display in P3D on the ASI that I cannot resolve. In some load states it will set the speed bugs automatically and then other times it will not but they can still be set using the dials on the instrument. At the moment I cannot fix the Honeywell FMC issue which is its behaviour when using the mouse and an inability to enter some data to get flight profiles. 

MammyJammy - I cannot get the sound set up you advised to work in P3DV5 with FSUIPC in the addons area which is where FSUIPC insists on going with FSUIPC6. I am reluctant to add in a module directory to P3DV5 as it does not create one on installation and it is clear that LM have gone for the addon xml approach to such modules. Any thoughts or ideas appreciated. 

 

 

 

[CaptKornDog 281]

Looking forward to it.

[MammyJammy 124]

22 hours ago, coastaldriver said:

MammyJammy - I cannot get the sound set up you advised to work in P3DV5 with FSUIPC in the addons area which is where FSUIPC insists on going with FSUIPC6. I am reluctant to add in a module directory to P3DV5 as it does not create one on installation and it is clear that LM have gone for the addon xml approach to such modules. Any thoughts or ideas appreciated. 

Hmmm...Where on your PC does the FSUIPC6.DLL and the FSUIPC6.ini file reside?  If the DC10SndInter.lua file is in the same directory, make sure you have added the [auto] section to your FSUIPC6.ini file.  It should read:

[Auto]
1=Lua DC10SndInter

If your FSUIPC6.ini file already has an [Auto] section, make sure to add "X=Lua DC10SndInter" as a line under it, where X is the next number in sequence of items in the [Auto] section.

If you have that in your .ini and are still having issues, let me know and I'll chase it.  If you can, send/post an FSUIPC6.log from your last P3D session, which will log Lua errors.  I've also made another update to the LUA file I'll upload that improves the sound playback but I managed to create a panel state bug I'm working through.  I'll post an update when I get it fixed.

On 1/6/2021 at 3:54 AM, coastaldriver said:

I know there was a variation in opinion on what is what for the DC-10 as far as fuel and weights is concerned but my research led me to discover that there were a variety of tank configurations and quantities possible - it depended upon what the customer specified or ordered.

In the doc, I have four configurations currently that support the various fuel configurations of the DC-10.  The primary difference is the DC-10 had an option for an aux tank that added 4,885 gallons of capacity which appears to have been initially ordered with Western Airlines late DC-10 order, as well as a few other small operators.  The DC-10-30/40 fuel config supports the vast majority of all 30/40 deliveries except for the unique -ER config that only had something like 6 examples.  The -30ER had additional capacity in one of the center tanks.  There's a link the doc I've put together that has a link to the now-Boeing specs and handling document for the DC/MD-10, including all the variants.  Many of the sub-variants of the -10 and -30 had some subtle fuel/payload differences, but it resulted in the exchange of something like 300-400 pounds of fuel or payload.  Pretty inconsequential.
 

22 hours ago, coastaldriver said:

Ok after much tinkering I have at last arrived at modifications to the aircraft configuration files for the DC-10-10, DC-10-30, and DC-10-40 that realigns the aircraft specifications with the air files for the various model airframes and engine. I will upload in about a week the new config files which should go well with the advice and info from Mammy Jammy and his modifications. 

Cool!  When you have them up, I can add links or instructions into my document - Happy to include the input of others into it.  I am amazed at how good a flyer the JF DC-10 becomes with some light mods.  It really is a fun bird to fly.  I also picked up the ISG gauges and will get some time this coming weekend to start on some VC hacking.
 

22 hours ago, coastaldriver said:

The DC-10-40 is now a little bit more sluggish. It effectively was a DC10-30 with detuned engines, in other words operators wanted the capacity of the 30 model but not the higher fuel burn and engine maintenance issues so they were not faster and heavier but simply had lower powered engines fitted (detuned or derated). 

The -40 didn't have de-tuned engines, it simply had different engines.  Instead of one of the varieties of GE CF6-50s that were on the -30s, they were installed with Pratt & Whitney JT9Ds.  This was at the request of the CEO of Northwest Airlines that wanted the DC-10s fitted with the same engines that were on their fleet of 747s for maintenance commonality.  He's quoted as saying "If I want a lightbulb I'll call GE.  If I want an aircraft engine I'll call Pratt & Whitney".  They have a large bulge on the #2 engine inlet.  NWA's DC-10s were delivered with JT9D-20s @ 50,000 lbs of thrust (slightly less than a -30 w/ GEs) while Japan Airlines (the only other operator of the -40) had JT9D-50s at 53,000 pounds of thrust (slightly more than the -30 w/ GEs).

[Mace 1,902]

@coastaldriver It might be the DC-10-10 you're thinking of.  It had lower rated engines I *think*.   Are you bendyflyer from SimOuthouse?  Or you just mentioned him from the threads over there?

@MammyJammy Sorry, I have been in the same boat as far as VC goes, I am very busy with work and probably won't have any time to look at my old VC file until this weekend.  If I am remembering correctly, I didn't get very far -- only had the FMS underneath the existing FMS graphic...which didn't work so well as you can imagine.

What I do have working well are the ISG popups.  I have a panel.cfg for my Fedex MD-10, which has all of the default 2D popups removed completely....and in their place are the ISG gauges.   By "default 2D popups" I mean the FE Upper, FE Lower, etc. etc. panels which are in the panel.cfg by default.   I found myself not using them (I use Chaseplane to move around the cockpit to the FE station, etc. and don't need the default popups).  I kept the "Doors" 2D popup, because I do use it in conjunction with GSX.  I then use shift-1-2-3-4 etc. to pop up the ISG popups.  I can share that portion of my MD-10 panel.cfg file with you if you'd like, even though it's really pretty simple and you probably could do same in about 30 minutes.

 

[MammyJammy 124]

On 1/7/2021 at 2:53 PM, Mace said:

I can share that portion of my MD-10 panel.cfg file with you if you'd like, even though it's really pretty simple and you probably could do same in about 30 minutes.

Hey @Mace - Please do share as I have the ISG gauges and just cracked open the panel.cfg to get to editing.  There's a few curve balls I'm seeing, and your start on the 2D panels would help.  I also think I've been able to get the ISG gauges working outside the P3D root, but still not fully sure it's actually working.  A 2D panel config would give me a jump-start.

I've also figured out the VC sound and panel states bug I had, so I'll have a new doc upload with two new Lua files tomorrow.  It will fix an issue with sound playback and also cleans up the panel states a bit.

[Mace 1,902]

10 hours ago, MammyJammy said:

Hey @Mace - Please do share as I have the ISG gauges and just cracked open the panel.cfg to get to editing.  There's a few curve balls I'm seeing, and your start on the 2D panels would help.  I also think I've been able to get the ISG gauges working outside the P3D root, but still not fully sure it's actually working.  A 2D panel config would give me a jump-start.

Here is the beginning of the panel.cfg for my md-10/dc-10. You can disregard Window00, that is left over from P3Dv4 (it was for Roland's Radar gauge, which I don't think works in v5, or if it does, I am not presently using it)  and I have not removed it yet.  Also, I didn't include the vcockpit part.    I have the DC1010F cfg file for the FMS too, if you need to see it:

 

// CLS DC10 for FSX
// Aug 10, 2014

[Window Titles]
Window00=RADAR
Window01=NAVIGATION DISPLAY
Window02=EFIS CONTROL PANEL
Window03=SMITHS FMS
Window04=FMS CONTROL PANEL
Window05=DOOR PANEL

[VIEWS]
VIEW_FORWARD_WINDOWS=0,10001,10002,10003,10004,10005,10006,10007,10008,10009,10010,10011,10012,10013,10014,10015,10016,10017
VIEW_FORWARD_EYE=0.000, 0.000, 0.000
VIEW_FORWARD_DIR=11.000, 0.000, 0.000

//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window00]
size_mm=60,60
window_size_ratio=1.000  
position=7
visible=1
ident=0
window_size= 0.250, 0.250

gauge00=RolASNRadar!ORadGauge, 0,0,60,60, sweep|beam|icing

/--------------------------------------------------------
[Window01]
Background_color=0,0,0 
size_mm=150,100
window_size_ratio=1.000 
position=3
visible=0 
ident=4007
window_size= 0.250, 0.450

gauge00=isg1!HW_MD11_ND,0,0,150,100

//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window02]
Background_color=0,0,0 
size_mm=120,80
window_size_ratio=1.000 
position=2
visible=0 
ident=4013
window_size= 0.210, 0.230

gauge00=isg1!MD11_EFIS_CTRL,0,0,120,80

//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window03] 
Background_color=0,0,0 
size_mm=160,200
window_size_ratio=1.000 
position=4
visible=0 
ident=4012
window_size= 0.220, 0.520

gauge00=isg1!SMITHS_FMS, 0,0,160,200,DC1010F 

//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window04]
file=..\..\CLS_DX_DC10-30\Panel\FMS_CONTROL_PANEL.bmp
size_mm=320,90
window_size_ratio=1.000 
position=5
visible=0 
window_size= 0.150, 0.07

gauge00=isg1!LNAV, 6,30,50,50
gauge01=isg1!VNAV, 56,30,50,50

//--------------------------------------------------------

[Window05]
Background_color=2,2,2 
size_mm=214,874
window_size_ratio=1.000  
position=0
visible=0
ident=10034
window_size= 0.120, 0.800
window_pos= 0.890, 0.000
zorder=0

gauge00=CLS_DC10_FSX!DOOR_PANEL_FREIGHTER,  0,0,214,874

//--------------------------------------------------------

[Vcockpit01]

 

.. <snip> ..

[Mace 1,902]

Below is the DC1010F.cfg file I'm using with the ISG gauges.  This is placed in E:\P3Dv5\ISG\Aircraft in my installation.

It is the config file for the -10 and essentially gives the FMS the default parameters it uses for phases of flight.   It is called in the gauge callout as noted in the previous post.

 

; McDonnell-Douglas DC-10-10F
ApprFlapsMin=15
ApprFlapsMid=35
ApprFlapsMax=50
BestHoldIas=180
ClbAltRest=10000
ClbSpdRest=250
ClimbIas=290
ClimbRate=1500
ClimbIasMax=290
ClimbIasMin=180
CostIndex=200
CruiseIasMax=320
CruiseIasMin=290
DescentIasMax=290
DescentIasMin=180
DescentRate=2000
EngThrust=40000
FPA=3.5
LdgFlaps=50
MaxCruise=33000
MaxVnavDescRate=3500
MaxVnavClimbRate=1500
MinVnavIas=135
MinVNavRadioAlt=500
ModelID=DC-10-10F
ParkingFile=isg_Parking.txt
MFDTextAntiAlias=0
TOFlaps=15
TOFlapsRange=5,15,22,35,50
TransAlt=18000