Mathijs Kok’s vision on Fs ( also on P3D )

[Irishcurse 234]

1 hour ago, fakeflyer737 said:

100% 

I FSL Leonardo and PMDG had addons out for MSFS I'd be uninstalling P3D in a heart beat...but the time is coming and it's coming quick. 

PMDG already said they are minimum a year away from releasing the NG3. I have MSFS. Don't use it. I am P3D until FSL and PMDG are on MSFS. That at least a year away.

[Bryn 72]

I saw this on the MSFS Developer update, which seemed like a bit of a jab at PMDG and FSL on that...

November 25th, 2020 Development Update - Microsoft Flight Simulator

• Just to mention it, we are super excited to see what Aerosoft, Hans, Stefan and the rest of the team are doing with the CRJ. It’s so rewarding to see a team embrace the SDK and create a complex aircraft with it. It’s just great quality and we are so excited to see this come together!

[Mace 1,902]

If I ran a company like Aerosoft that made and sold products for several different simulators, I would love ALL sims, at least publicly.  He /used/ to say that exact phrase, too.

Now, he's gone away from that.  Why alienate any fraction of potential sales?  I'd want every sale and every bit of goodwill I could get.   I wouldn't care what their software was.  That would be the smart play, and he could have his European distributor thing with MSFS as well!   Seems all loss and no gain to alienate anyone.

[evaamo 549]

Well, just today I spent close to $500 on addons for P3D and XP11.

I pre-ordered MSFS premium the minute they let it out. Want to know how much I've spent in addons for that sim? Zero, nada, cero.

 Mr. Kok may be right, but I don't know how good his bet will turn out.

I do like the simulator, but I'm not ready to invest in it, yet.  I have a healthy fleet of GA and tubeliners and lots of scenery for both P3D and XP11, and while  MSFS graphics are definitely in another league, I find it rough around the edges in many of *my personal* areas of interest, that I seldom launch it. As a matter of fact, the last two times I've used it it's been as a scenery generator for Aerowinx PSX. One of the reasons is performance: I have a 9900k OC'ed to 5.0 and a 2080ti, and at 4k there is no way to enjoy the sim in dense areas or major airports... it's a slideshow. 

It reminds me of FSX. It was launched in 2007 and I think I stuck with FS2004 until late 2010-2011. It will mature, hardware will evolve... but so will XP and P3D.

I agree with many of you: P3D and XP still have LOTS of life left in them.

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by evaamo

[IUBrian 151]

A lot of astute comments.

I don’t know whether MSFS is the future of flight simulation, but I do know to take the words of someone who has pushed his chips all in that is with a grain of salt. And while he may have valid criticisms of LM with regards to updates, I find those criticisms ring hollow in comparison to a product whose SDK is by all accounts (explicit and implied) wholly inadequate.

On that point, I believe the earlier comment regarding disposable income AND that this hobby may go the way of model trains in relevant. At the end of the day flight simulation is a relatively niche hobby - the stunning visuals of MSFS are enough to draw an initial crowd, but the reality is over time, unless one is avidly interested in aviation, it will become boring. I think it’s naive to assume that it will create a whole new enthusiast market; people who were interested in aviation to the extent that they will spend hours in front of a monitor planning and executing a make believe flight, and spending thousands of dollars to enhance that make believe environment have largely already invested in one of the existing platforms. MSFS  cannibalizes that market. Its long term value in terms of third party developers lies not with the increased market size of the XBox crowd but its ability to run complex add-ons with acceptable performance - that’s the market that will spend the money for add-on after add-on (and has the disposable income to do so). Perhaps eventually it will, but I must confess some skepticism - the promotional videos leading up to MSFS’s release led to expectations (which were encouraged and not tempered) of a product that is quite different from the product that was actually released. By the same token, I’ll be happy to be proven wrong. 
 

[B777ER 2,484]

1 hour ago, Bryn said:

I saw this on the MSFS Developer update, which seemed like a bit of a jab at PMDG and FSL on that...

November 25th, 2020 Development Update - Microsoft Flight Simulator

• Just to mention it, we are super excited to see what Aerosoft, Hans, Stefan and the rest of the team are doing with the CRJ. It’s so rewarding to see a team embrace the SDK and create a complex aircraft with it. It’s just great quality and we are so excited to see this come together!

100% jab at PMDG. If Asobo only knew that CRJ from Aerosoft is like Triple A baseball level at best while PMDG/FSL are in the major league. Of course Aerosoft can work with the current version of the SDK, they are building a interior product that does not even come close to the system depth of the big boys. 

[dave2013 1,123]

3 hours ago, Adrian123 said:

IS MSFS different? Not in my mind.

Agreed.

Dave

[DrumsArt 270]

19 minutes ago, IUBrian said:

A lot of astute comments.

I don’t know whether MSFS is the future of flight simulation, but I do know to take the words of someone who has pushed his chips all in that is with a grain of salt. And while he may have valid criticisms of LM with regards to updates, I find those criticisms ring hollow in comparison to a product whose SDK is by all accounts (explicit and implied) wholly inadequate.

On that point, I believe the earlier comment regarding disposable income AND that this hobby may go the way of model trains in relevant. At the end of the day flight simulation is a relatively niche hobby - the stunning visuals of MSFS are enough to draw an initial crowd, but the reality is over time, unless one is avidly interested in aviation, it will become boring. I think it’s naive to assume that it will create a whole new enthusiast market; people who were interested in aviation to the extent that they will spend hours in front of a monitor planning and executing a make believe flight, and spending thousands of dollars to enhance that make believe environment have largely already invested in one of the existing platforms. MSFS  cannibalizes that market. Its long term value in terms of third party developers lies not with the increased market size of the XBox crowd but its ability to run complex add-ons with acceptable performance - that’s the market that will spend the money for add-on after add-on (and has the disposable income to do so). Perhaps eventually it will, but I must confess some skepticism - the promotional videos leading up to MSFS’s release led to expectations (which were encouraged and not tempered) of a product that is quite different from the product that was actually released. By the same token, I’ll be happy to be proven wrong. 
 

100% approved. So true!

I will add, knowing the "aversion" that Mr. Kok has towards aircraft that he considers too complicated with very controversial arguments, knowing also that he seems to be involved in the development of an SDK with the MS/Asobo team, I will not be surprised to see an SDK arriving soon that might not satisfy the teams of those (you know who they are) who have the ambition to make aircraft at the top in terms of systems.

In the meantime, my p3Dv5.1hf with PMDG, FsLabs, A2A, Majestic Q400, soon Leonardo, ORBX, GSX, CP and so, runs like a Swiss clock. Yeah! 😎

Richard.

 

 

[Dreamflight767 312]

When he/Aerosoft actually develop something respectable, I'll listen/read.  

Edited November 27, 2020 by Dreamflight767

[Johnny19 344]

7 hours ago, F737NG said:

My comment from Sunday still stands...

As a business, Aerosoft can choose any direction that they wish.
In response they should be aware that I won't be buying any more add-ons for MSFS anytime soon, preferring instead to expand my P3D collection.
A few people on this forum think likewise.

I’m with you. Take care.

[evaamo 549]

45 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

P3D paid his bills for many years at what I see as minimal SDK/PDK feature usage. 

I just responded along the same lines to some other poster over the Aerosoft forums. 

I'm getting the sensation that in a matter of 12 months we've turned from customers into a "pestilent niche" bunch. I think Mr. Kok should think thoroughly each and every reply he posts in that thread, as he may agitating a hornet's nest.

 

[mpo910 2,112]

I do like the fact he reacted. Although I think he simply had to respond because many user where "making noise" over there and over here. I myself wrote him an open letter because I see how most of the employees at Aerosoft, incl. Mister Kok himself, do react on questions and issues regarding Addons for P3D V5!

It where simply to many reactions to "hide", as he calls it. And even here at AVSIM many did react at him by opening threads and using content with his name in it.

Staying quiet after this, does make Aerosoft more attackable. 

But I do read between the lines. His words are very well chosen. He does try to get the corner but I think Mister Kok his own prior posts, on several threads and issues over at Aerosoft and some open statements from him regarding MSFS, where indirectly and even directly affecting the LM platform and surely its developers. Maybe they do harm him/Aerosoft also more then he likes, who knows.

@Rob_Ainscoughdid react on his post with some examples about the controversial sides of Mister Koks statements. And on top I like to add, he does not only write controversial, Mister Kok acts controversial. IF he likes P3D, why harming them by using these negative statements? And IF he is "only the publisher", why is it necessary to be so negative about P3D indirectly or even directly?

My opinion: It was not necessary at all! It is never positive to make marketing for a product by making negative marketing for another product. It is the most cheapest thing you can do.  They often is done because the lack of honest and true unique selling points OR not having enough of them to take the plunge with 100% confidence. 

There is simply not ONE SINGLE reason to be negative about a long existing product/platform after sales went down due a new product got launched! If there is, please point me at it. 

MSFS has surely his own positives compared to P3D. But also his negatives. It´s all about the view and requirements. And Aerosoft has smelled money, but based on MSFS visuals. The SDK is the evidence that MSFS is far from being comparable with P3D. It will probably never get there as long as P3D is enhancing his own SDK. MSFS SDK will grow for sure. But the speed and depth will be dependent on what? Probably on what the customers like! 

And then writing you Like P3D honestly....is honestly more than very unbelievable.

Never spit in the well you drunk.........😉 

He does like getting positive feedback. Otherwise he would never get so open and present. He is confident and proud being in lead at such a company and he writes about this.

But the last couple of months he also got some very negative attention.  

I personally think that if he would just NOT have mentioned P3D and still being focused on MSFS, would have bin better for Aerosoft. He has simply reacted to early, to fast and to opened minded at LM. This was completely unnecessary.

As he wrote himself: "We are going there where the customers are".

Exactly. Nothing wrong with that. But throwing the towel, OBVIOUSLY and open minded stated, at LM P3D was simply overdone and in fact harming all those who are using it or making money with it, also via Aerosoft as a publisher.

I honestly don´t think the recent LLBG and EDDM didn´t sell that bad. And MKStudios EHFK, AILRP, PMDG upcoming triple 777 and 777X will all be used massively within P3D. Even if they all would asked a certain update fee!

It is all about the money...is not the only count. It counts if you have the USP which your customers seek for. MSFS has some, but not on every aspect.

That´s why traffic here at AVSIM has gone up at the P3D section, and probably traffic in the Air also. 😉

Marcus 

Link open letter to Mathijs Kok (which he got also at Aerosoft and via PM)

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/589972-an-open-letter-with-my-concerns-about-aerosoft-and-apology/

Link to post GSalden at Aerosoft

https://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/157318-a-glass-of-wine-and-mildly-vindictive-ponderings/&do=findComment&comment=1003613

Edited November 27, 2020 by mpo910
Link reaction Gerard (GSalden) added as it also clarifies und undermines my statement. Link to my posted open letter added

[GSalden 4,656]

Also posted my reply 

[G-RFRY 1,708]

To me it`s like Aerosft saying if don`t use MSFS don`t bother coming to our webstore, point taken i will not in future i can buy what i want else ware.

 

[Mace 1,902]

See how long it lasts on Aerosoft's forum.  They consider their forum an arm of their marketing department, so any negative "press" there has a tendency to vanish.