What makes the ever-loathed autopilot issues all the more worse is that Asobo said that they have dedicated teams only to fix AP issues.

That leads me to believe that team has no idea what they’re doing, or just that coding aircraft autopilot systems isn’t exactly their strong suit.

Either way, there’s a clear mismanagement or lack of talent and it shows. They’ve picked the perfect people for scenery updates (Gaya sims) and the scenery creations are absolutely breathtaking. If only they could find a similarly skilled team for autopilot.

Or, you know, open the autopilot to community modding and let the renowned members of the community do their thing. 

5 hours ago, cepact said:

I too am really disappointed with Asobo. I don't know, what work they are doing behind the scenes but apart from the scenery the sim has almost not progressed at all since release. I think this is ridiculous. Maybe MS should stop being nice to Asobo and put some pressure. Maybe let Asobo do the scenery and hire a new team for the simulator. 

And what if it was Microsoft pushing Asobo to go to a more mmorpg kind of sim direction because of the release of the xbox, and asking to downgrade the sim because of their server capacity ? Is it just me feeling Sebastien Wloch seems more annoyed in the latest twitch ? Not sure Asobo and Microsoft have or did have the same vision of what should be MSFS....

2 hours ago, robert young said:

Their determination to be "different" from FSX is all very well if they actually achieved something workable. 

Hi Robert,

your post actually reminded me a lot of what happened when another European company many many years ago decided to get into building aircraft but make everything radically different (better?) than the established aircraft building companies.

It took that company decades to climb down from their high horse and admit that it is hard to better a perfect solution just by doing it differently...and quietly and silently backpedaling on a lot of their "radical design decisions".

I hope for the sake of the MSFS users that it won´t take that long in the case of MSFS. It isn´t easy to make a good flightsimulator, but it amazes me that these kind of problems seem to slip by Asobo or are deemed not critical. Which takes me back to that aircraft manufacturer who shall remain unnamed 😉.

Cheers, Jan

 

I’m late to this party but add me to the list of disillusioned sim owners. I constantly hear that we must allow time for this sim to mature. Thing is, in the context used, that word implies progression and advancement. Granted, we are only 3 months in but we have had multiple patches and even a hot fix. These have not progressed the definition of maturing.

Let’s summarise just some of the issues: From breaking the already below-par AP functionality further to poorly implemented metric/hybrid system, a broken logbook, bad flight models, ugly grainy clouds, LOD issues, the famous controller sensitivity setting blunder, night lighting... the list goes on and on of instances that show that this sim is regressing, not maturing. 
 

If it carries on much longer it will need life support. Not only when the hard core sim enthusiasts lose interest, the gamer masses will also grow bored.

This sim is a rough diamond. I am beginning to think Asobo, in their current mindset, do not have the polish it needs to make it a jewel.

Edited November 29, 20205 yr by RaptyrOne

14 minutes ago, RaptyrOne said:

This sim is a rough diamond. I am beginning to think Asobo, in their current mindset, do not have the polish it needs to make it a jewel.

It seems that Asobo cuts large pieces from the diamond to somehow squeeze it into the Xbox. 😄

" It requires a lot more tuning than changing a few inertia values and effectiveness values to get a well balanced aircraft. But if this was so easy to do, you wonder why Asobo didn't do it! "

 

I think Asobo doesn't do it because they don't want to do that. It isn't a goal for them. They measure the plane and the control surfaces and how far they move and carefully see where the unloaded plane must balance based on physics. In fact I think Sebastian Wloch says something like this at 39:18 in this video. The controls are moving the surfaces as they are measured to be supposed to .

But still the planes as being flown by users in the sim does not handle and react as in real life. But Mr. Wloch seems to not care. If there is no feedback as in real life coming from acceleration vector directions changing, that is not Asobo's fault he says. They have made it physically real and should not change it.

I prefer to make it feel like real life, rather than measure like real life. I and Asobo have a different goal in mind.

As for the light GA craft, Asobo sim planes feel to me a bit tail heavy and nose weak, it feels 'light' when landing and different from real life. But I'm sure the modeled c.o.g. is right where the real aircraft is by measurement and Asobo feels it has completed it's job. They do not see any issue, they don't perceive there is anything to fix. I do.

But I move the load (typically 3 lines) in flight_model.cfg forward. That will make the tail less heavy and the plane does not float like a feather, but feels weighty and natural, even if the physical balance is not to spec.

 

Got to nod in agreement to the OP. Think I ran the sim for about 10 minutes after the latest update but there is just so much broken at the moment and QA seems non existent. I mean, losing basic key commands to adjust your view in the cockpit...?

I'm not sure what the answer is - maybe MS need to grab a bit more oversight with where Asobo are going each time they do an update. Maybe they need to insist on a complete rework and if Asobo aren't up to the task, find another developer.

It's sad as, 1. I paid £60 for this and 2. I can see the huge potential - would love to be flying (eventually) DC10's and 727's out of the lovely airports and across the breathtaking scenery. But it just isn't gelling for me ATM and has become an exercise in frustration and bug fighting.

Lets get back to the developers philosophy because it explains, in my opinion, a lot of what is going on.

But first, I dismiss the argument that the aircraft flight and system modeling irritants that we see, come from the fact that the sim is so new. Asobo has said they have been working more than 3 years on it. And they had the feedback from thousands of testers for half a year. And 40 years of flight simulation to learn from.

In an interview in French, the Asobo executive director of the project said

The previous flight simulators were based on an engineer approach with a concern to have all the correct parameters and instruments but too disconnected from a physical experience. Now, with the technologies at our disposal, we can reproduce the entire Earth and therefore favor (in French the word used was privilégier meaning to give priority) another type of flight: visual flight. It is also the first type of flight that we learn in pilot training: finding one's way in relation to the coast line, the river, etc. We really put the emphasis on the feeling of flight, on the fun, on the pleasure of feeling the masses of air, on the dynamic camera.

What we see is what they intended to do : sensation, fun over exactitude. So, you see, no need to see the hand of a saboteur 😄 ! 

What about the future ? Will they cling with stubborness to the fun approach or will they inject a little more engineer rigor in the simulation ?

Some will tell me Xbox, Xbox, Xbox ! Fun over exactitude. Nope, gamers are interested by the gameplay, not niceties. In a shooter, you expect the ballistics to be believable more than the ennemy to have a perfect uniform. And a flight simulator gameplay is not only the awe of seeing the ground below but to also (or even more) have the challenge of accurately managing your aircraft systems and flying.

To use a rugby metaphor, Asobo has scored a try. Lets hope they convert it

Edited November 29, 20205 yr by Dominique_K

15 hours ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

Considering the complexity of an application like this and the apparent rushed launch by Microsoft, I can excuse some of the regressions, but not when they fail to publicly acknowledge them and provide a definitive answer.

I think they really have their behinds full of bug reports and according to what we hear in the Q&A they often just can't reproduce things or aren't even aware of them due to the amount of different issues.

I'm one of the critical but overall positive guys as well. But there is no sense in not acknowledging the flaws. The community has to point them out - otherwise nothing will change.

On my behalf, it's the thing with inertia / sensitivity. The feeling of balancing eggs during flare.

 

14 hours ago, OSM said:

FS2020 is not a Flight Simulator anymore and flight simulation community must accept this sad fact!!!

FS2020 is a MMORPG - a massively multiplayer online role-playing game.

There are one or two guys, which constantly post the same narrative in alternating versions, who would certainly agree with that. Some of them don't even use MSFS though. 😄

I can see where you are coming from on this, but it's a little over exaggerated.

I did a round the world tour in the TBM930 in six continents for 2,5 months. It was about 50%/50% frustration/fun.

Now I am taking a break from the sim till next spring to see if Asobo has actually fixed anything by then.

Had high hopes for this new sim in August but now, not so much.

Edited November 29, 20205 yr by Concorde79

Same here - at it's present state MFS can't offer me any worth "keeping installed" reasons...

I have a backup of the Aerosoft DVDs, and an image of my last install... One day, somewhere along 2021, maybe only 2022, I will consider reinstalling it... Just way too many GB used on my disks for quite a vain use so far...

The main ingredients in a flight simulator, for me, are far from being achieved.

But, just as you, getting back to the alternatives is no good either, exceptions being ELITE, PSX and CONDOR, and sometimes IL-2 BoS too, because as limited in scope or visuals these can be, each does it's work exactly as I expect it too... or pretty much like that.

If I could spend the required amount in a powerful PC upgrade to run MFS at HIGH / ULTRA settings I would, at most, consider a combination of Aerowinx PSX and MFS for the visuals as some are already doing, preferably running in two networked PCs ( or more... )

I'm with the OP, 100%

Edited November 29, 20205 yr by jcomm

Whilst I agree 100% about the bugs etc., I'd give Asobo a bit of leeway. France is in the middle of a pandemic (and lockdown). Who knows what the individual developers may be going through right now? Nothing there is "normal" - and I suspect neither are the usual working practices. It's possible that all the high-end development machines are locked away in some office and devs have to cope with temporary laptops etc. from home.

I still think MSFS 2020 is an incredible base/starting point to work on - and will come into its own after the crisis.

Adam.

I don't buy the excuse of the Pandemic for incompetent patch releases, no super computer locked away is gonna help the Talent of the person using it if they don't know what they're doing.

Take the AP issues for example, that's code that can be adjusted on the most basic PC from home, the Sensitivity Page missing from an update is just simply poor Patch Management, these are things that should not be missed regardless of the ongoing Pandemic.

Sure it's no doubt affected some areas, but if they can release fantastic World Updates just fine then they can release Patch Updates just fine as well, it can't be an excuse for one area and not the other.

38 minutes ago, tweekz said:

I think they really have their behinds full of bug reports and according to what we hear in the Q&A they often just can't reproduce things or aren't even aware of them due to the amount of different issues.

I should have made myself more clear. I was talking about the two Wishlist threads with 300+ votes being missing from the Feedback Snapshot for more than three weeks now. One requesting that the Premium Deluxe aircraft are opened up so they can be modded, and one requesting a bug fix for the flashing clouds on certain NVIDIA GPUs (since 1.10.7.0 one month ago).

The former has been completely ignored, and has not been addressed by the team so far. The latter is a bit more difficult, we have been getting mixed responses from support, and the consensus is that the developers are fully aware of the issue (we have pinpointed the exact GPUs affected and reported them to Zendesk accordingly) but it is not a priority and that we should just fly with clouds off, as if weather is a graphics setting. 300+ votes and not a priority?

We talked to the community managers about this and they said they would inquire with Asobo regarding why those requests are missing from the Feedback Snapshot. Two weeks later and no response, and no acknowledgement in the Developer Q&A. They are promising transparency, and yet they are just pretending those two requests do not exist. They could show some decency by prioritising the bug-riddled Premium Deluxe aircraft (if for some legit reason they don't want to open the files up) and updating the system requirements to show that the GTX 770 is not compatible anymore. Or at least make the Feedback Snapshot say "Not Planned" instead of sweeping the requests under the rug.

i guess then i am one of those ppl who are thoroughly enjoying this sim.

some issues ppl report, i dont see those.

as the sim is now, its not for the weakminded ones.

and yes it would be better if the ones not liking it wait it out...could be a loooong wait.

off to happy flying.