25 minutes ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

they are promising transparency, and yet they are just pretending those two requests do not exist. 

As much as I was happy to see their openness few months ago, I start to wonder whether  this transparency thing is not just a marketing shtick. A lightning rod to mellow critics.

This is the same MIcrosoft marketing team which  keeps on publishing misleading promotional trailers and which bribes YouTube « influencers » with costly hardware to get favorable reviews....

I just wish they would use the expertise in the community, ie Robery Young, the FBW team, Working Title. All have shown just what can be done, even at this state of the SDK. Imagine the potential then.....

Edited November 29, 20205 yr by Car147

1 hour ago, tweekz said:

I can see where you are coming from on this, but it's a little over exaggerated.

Just curious from where? I am not X-Plane, P3D, FSX or DCS fun, but I respect BMS. 😄

 

There are two groups of people in the sim. 

One who will never understand how it works and will always have a Simulator resembling to them and their computeur.Filled with a huge bag of trouble.

And the second with open mind.In a world where everything goes well with a full understanding of FS and with an exceptional result and indescribable unbeatable pleasure.

You have to have a soft brain to continue flying on a simulator whose bugs you no longer support.

Turn around and go fly somewhere else in the past.They need you.

 

1 hour ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

I should have made myself more clear. I was talking about the two Wishlist threads with 300+ votes being missing from the Feedback Snapshot for more than three weeks now.

Ah OK. Well, that's sad. True.

I had a similar experience. They moved the "sensitivity" thread to the solved issues section. The thread was about general issues, but they decided it was solved as they fixed the missing sensitivity page bug (which was only introduced after the thread already existed). A mod said he was going to look into it. Nothing happened.

My biggest dissapointment is that they ignore the work of the users who do detailed testing an analysis (e.g. the issue introduced by one of the patches with reduced tree display range, and the trees dissaperaring and apperaing again at even closer ranges). They say they spend a lot of time reading forums (especially the official one). And then, during the Q&A sessions they are surprised by some information which is perfectly documented, nearly ready to be solved, pointing to probably one wrong artithmetic statement in the signle line of code.

Why they strees so much that they read the forums if they are genuinely unaware of the most of the hot content (lightings, tree display range, broken update download system etc.)

Any time I mentioned that the patches actually downgraded some feature on the official forums, my posts were deleted by the mods (reason: lack of respect to the developers).

A theory: They sold a lot of copies due to perfect marketing campaign (YouTube) based on visual representation of the world. The sale is now probably no longer skyrocketing. They probably have 3 more such marketing kicks planned:

- "World updates" to trigger the sales in the adressed regions,

- VR (will be hard to show on YouTube, but they will be able to say about the "amazing experience") - to trigger Christmas sales,

- Xbox.

And their effort is focused on these areas.

They probably also realised that they created a very complex beast (client side, server side, Azure, AI, weather), without the proper management and experience of the developing company, understanding this beast behaviour is probably too difficult for any single person. And now, working in isolation due to pandemic, is not easy to have the "collective brain" in one room and handle the complexity properly. With such complex system, the best ideas and solutions are very often resulting from a chat at the lunch time or in the office cafeteria, very hard to obtain the team creativity when working 100% remotely, with some team members who probably never visited the office and actually shaken hands with the colleagues.

They achieved a lot when buidling this thing, they were really great and innovative. And now, just before and after the release, they are struggling. I guess the pandemic affected their way of working as a team more vs. some other companies. Each company has it's own team dynamic and the pandemic impact may be different. Symplifying a bit and following some stereotypes, I would guees that German development company will be less affected by the pandemic than French company, they way the people interact and collaborate.

Edited November 29, 20205 yr by Steku

53 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

This is the same MIcrosoft marketing team which  keeps on publishing misleading promotional trailers

Yeah, this situation is very disappointing and they should do better. If I find the will to start up the simulator again any time soon I will try and make a comparison with the earlier Around the World trailers to see if the claim of the one-month delay stands.

18 minutes ago, filou said:

Turn around and go fly somewhere else in the past.They need you.

Personally I've gone back to Flight Simulator 2002 for now. Hopefully it will keep my interest up until the supply issues are gone and I can fund a new system. Otherwise, the new simulator was my only hope to get back into flight simulation, the previous ones could just not hold my interest as someone that flies VFR exclusively.

7 minutes ago, tweekz said:

I had a similar experience. They moved the "sensitivity" thread to the solved issues section. The thread was about general issues, but they decided it was solved as they fixed the missing sensitivity page bug (which was only introduced after the thread already existed). A mod said he was going to look into it. Nothing happened.

I remember that and it's quite unfortunate, I think the control authority needs more work and we have no idea what they are doing about it now. They also really need to apply the previous adjustments to more aircraft. I tweaked my sensitivity to account for the Cessna 152/172 adjustments, and I took the Icon A5 in a recent community fly-in and it took me so long to realise why it was feeling so twitchy.

3 minutes ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

I remember that and it's quite unfortunate, I think the control authority needs more work and we have no idea what they are doing about it now. They also really need to apply the previous adjustments to more aircraft. I tweaked my sensitivity to account for the Cessna 152/172 adjustments, and I took the Icon A5 in a recent community fly-in and it took me so long to realise why it was feeling so twitchy.

I think they've improved sensitivity a little with one of the last patches. But it's still ridiculous how careful you have to touch the controls to make a smooth flare.

I think part of the problem might also be inertia and too pronounced ground effect.

4 minutes ago, filou said:

 

There are two groups of people in the sim. 

One who will never understand how it works and will always have a Simulator resembling to them and their computeur.Filled with a huge bag of trouble.

And the second with open mind.In a world where everything goes well with a full understanding of FS and with an exceptional result and indescribable unbeatable pleasure.

You have to have a soft brain to continue flying on a simulator whose bugs you no longer support.

Turn around and go fly somewhere else in the past.They need you.

I do not agree with you, my friend. This forum has a lot of experimented « reasonable » simmers of good will who desire nothing more than the next gen sim which was touted by MS. 

I often look at your lovely pics and see that you are mostly delighted and interested by great visuals. MSF has been built for people like you or so it seems. Nothing wrong.  

The point is that many of us see simming not only  as a visual experience of flying but as a more complete experience  : visuals but also the aviate, navigate, communicate thing. And we are still not here. And the recent patches raised doubts. Not good.

Should we go back to older sims ? Nope. Should we tell our dissatisfaction. Yes. 

1 minute ago, Dominique_K said:

The point is that many of us see simming not only  as a visual experience of flying but as a more complete experience  : visuals but also the aviate, navigate, communicate thing. And we are still not here. And the recent patches raised doubts. Not good.

On that note, I think it's interesting that there are so many people that dismiss the new simulator's visuals as "eye-candy" and would rather play with a "real simulator", when accurate scenery depiction is paramount for simulating VFR flight. That is impossible with the older ones, unless you invest thousands in scenery add-ons, and then have to deal with exceptionally poor performance on today's hardware.

This new simulator was the only one sustaining my interest, and I have no choice but to support it because I want to see it grow and improve and eventually become a good all-rounder, and because I lost faith in the older ones a long time ago. But I cannot hide that Asobo have lost my respect with some of their recent actions.

5 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

I do not agree with you, my friend. This forum has a lot of experimented « reasonable » simmers of good will who desire nothing more than the next gen sim which was touted by MS. 

I often look at your lovely pics and see that you are mostly delighted and interested by great visuals. MSF has been built for people like you or so it seems. Nothing wrong.  

The point is that many of us see simming not only  as a visual experience of flying but as a more complete experience  : visuals but also the aviate, navigate, communicate thing. And we are still not here. And the recent patches raised doubts. Not good.

Should we go back to older sims ? Nope. Should we tell our dissatisfaction. Yes. 

For lot experienced simmers like you You bought MSFS knowingly and according to your affinities..

It's not very experienced reasonable simmers for me.

Wow!  I wasn't expecting so many replies, but for the ones that agree on different levels - thanks, because I was wondering if it was just me. 😐
To the ones that have more patience and perseverance - great also, I am glad you are enjoying it, I really am.  👍
 
I do really want the sim to progress, but I just thought there was an Elephant in the room that needed talking about, and it seems we are doing this now, because the sim seems to be getting spoilt in some areas, and we all care about it.
So I hope Asobo do read the Avsim forums (in fact I know they do).  I do have respect for them, but things need to be said when certain things appear to be going in the wrong direction.
They use Zendesk for specific bug reports of course, but as by the quotes they sometimes repeat, it is obvious they also take the general response and feelings from the forums.

As some have intimated, they need to show respect back as well.  They do owe it to us - as we paid, simple as that!   And some of the things happening, such as the livery issue that was pointed out, without acknowledgement from them, did show a certain lack of consideration for the modders (which can be taken as a lack of respect for us). 

The community and the modders are the other half of this sim.  A big half as it turns out, and much more that we all predicted I think.  With what they have done with the latest autopilot 'fixes', they should have known the issues this would create for them.  Robert Young sounds totally frustrated by it, and he has put countless hours into delivering quality mods, which have now been walked all over.  If they do read the forums, they must know this.  It affects a lot of us, and I was quite down about it, and the effect it had on his upcoming DA62 mod.  

Looking back, I have gained just as much enjoyment from the mods, modders, and community, as the sim itself.   All Asobo have to do is build us a good sandbox, and we will build beautiful sand-castles in it.  Unfortunately, the sides to the sandbox are creaking a bit at the moment, and some of the sand is escaping.

Anyway, no consensus over the Saboteur thing really then?  🙂 It was a genuine and serious question, as some of the things that happen are really strange, and Even Asobo are scratching their heads sometimes, but ultimately, it seems the consensus is that it isn't easy to make these sims, and maybe it is just their Quality Control isn't the best.  

Without being offensive to them, my view is that Asobo do need more blunt feedback now, because they seem to misunderstand or disregard a lot.  Take the night lighting.  Most of us thought it was great at low level - the best I have seen in any sim.  Some people just wanted the sepia ground texture removed that was visible at higher altitudes. They ended up getting rid of that, but also spoiling the rest.  They threw the baby out with the bath water! 😄  What didn't they not understand?  Are some things getting lost in translation?

As for me, maybe I have let my frustrations from other walks of life and that has contributed, but sometime, when your company is having a hard time due to this virus issue, you just want to get home and lose yourself for an hour or so in the sim; instead, I just found more frustration lately.  As I love this sim, it genuinely hurts every time something gets broken or made worse.

After spending 100+ hours in the sim, I will now take the break I mentioned to concentrate more on family and the business, and this is the time to do it.  I intend to have a look at the next update around the 23rd of December, and hopefully I can get back into it over the holiday.  I am not into VR myself, but that should make a lot of people happy, and Asobo may have some other surprises for us by the sound of it (as mentioned in the twitch stream).

If you are reading this Asobo, keep going - make it good!  But you also have to have feedback when things aren't going so well - it will all help towards making it better for us in the end hopefully.  👍

 

Edited November 29, 20205 yr by bobcat999

17 hours ago, OSM said:

Exactly! This is the main gaming idea of FS2020 - Exploring the World in the multiplayer environment. 😃

To be honest exploring the world is my main motivation. It's a huge world to explore, and one that's never going to look the same way twice because of the live weather. I fly the Icon A5 with a "dashboard" that looks like a family car. It suits me fine not to have too many knobs and dials. I don't know how many other users are like me, but I guess we'll all be happy as long as the sim continues to function as a virtual world. We'll notice and complain when the weather fails, the scenery gets blurry or the terrain mesh is inadequate. (The terrain mesh is my biggest complaint so far re the UK in particular - but I guess it will be upgradable at some point.) I'm not saying I don't get any pleasure from landing cleanly and flying in a reasonably realistic fashion. I do actually - but I think the urge to fly well comes from the fact that it destroys the virtual world illusion if I don't. I'd be just as happy to fly around in a realsitically modelled hot air balloon.

It's like Second Life without all those annoying people - and way better graphics! 

Any news from Asobo if they finally captured the saboteur yesterday?.

Cheers, Ed

I really want this sim to work also but the planes I bought CTD every time.

We don’t need world or airport updates if we don’t have a realistic airplane to explore it with!

We need good airplanes to fly in the sim and a proper SDK!

Important things first please!

Edited November 29, 20205 yr by rob0203