Business Jets

[AndreNr22 7]

Hey guys,

wasn’t a lot into flight simulation lately, due to much work.

Can smbdy tell me if there are any news on business jets for the simulators? 
Not talking about carenado, I mean business jets with system depth etc. .

I got the Milviz King Air, FSW Falcon 50/Lear35 

 

Are there any news on eaglesoft or Milviz Lear60? 
 

Man I would love a real Phenom 300.

Cheers,

Andre 

[Bob Scott 7,715]

The PMDG Boeing Business Jet extension was released ~6 weeks ago.  That's the most complete long-range option, as none of the others so far include long range nav.  The Garmin GTNs are just not very well-suited to use in a long-range jet...fat-finger a few 40-waypoint oceanic flight plans into a GTN750 and you'll see what I mean.  FSW says their UNS-1 FMS for the Lear 35 should be out soon...if they get that into the Falcon, that'll make it a more viable intercontinental bizjet, though not nearly as in-depth systems-wise as the BBJs.

Eaglesoft has yet to release a single 64-bit add-on, and most of the Milviz catalog is still not P3Dv5-compatible nearly 8 months after its mid-April release.

 

[AndreNr22 7]

Thank you very much! 

[Ray Proudfoot 8,927]

There’s Xtreme Prototypes Lear25 which is a 70s model. Not the easiest to fly but its flight model is accurate. Very well modelled virtual cockpit with the ability to integrate the GTN 750 into the panel.

https://www.xtremeprototypes.com/shopexd.asp?id=48#collapse4

[pilatuz 141]

48 minutes ago, w6kd said:

The PMDG Boeing Business Jet extension was released ~6 weeks ago.  That's the most complete long-range option, as none of the others so far include long range nav.  The Garmin GTNs are just not very well-suited to use in a long-range jet...fat-finger a few 40-waypoint oceanic flight plans into a GTN750 and you'll see what I mean.  FSW says their UNS-1 FMS for the Lear 35 should be out soon...if they get that into the Falcon, that'll make it a more viable intercontinental bizjet, though not nearly as in-depth systems-wise as the BBJs.

Eaglesoft has yet to release a single 64-bit add-on, and most of the Milviz catalog is still not P3Dv5-compatible nearly 8 months after its mid-April release.

 

I routinely fly the FSW DA-50 on oceanic routes, occasionally at .75 to get up to a 3500nm range and can still land with around 2000 lbs of fuel. The GTN works pretty well, usually only takes 30 seconds to enter a custom waypoint for LatLon but many times the points are in there like 5330N etc. So not too cumbersome in my opinion. I use the PFPX profile found in their forums and have great results with it. I just would love a newly textured modern study level super-mid size business jet to be released with a proper FMS. Thats the dream..

[RichieFly 726]

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

There’s Xtreme Prototypes Lear25 which is a 70s model. Not the easiest to fly but its flight model is accurate. Very well modelled virtual cockpit with the ability to integrate the GTN 750 into the panel.

https://www.xtremeprototypes.com/shopexd.asp?id=48#collapse4

I wish I hadn't followed the link. I have version 2.0 which doesn't support P3Dv5. I naow has a sad.

[Mace 1,902]

1 hour ago, pilatuz said:

I routinely fly the FSW DA-50 on oceanic routes, occasionally at .75 to get up to a 3500nm range and can still land with around 2000 lbs of fuel. The GTN works pretty well, usually only takes 30 seconds to enter a custom waypoint for LatLon but many times the points are in there like 5330N etc. So not too cumbersome in my opinion. I use the PFPX profile found in their forums and have great results with it. I just would love a newly textured modern study level super-mid size business jet to be released with a proper FMS. Thats the dream..

We just need Gulfstream to come off their trademark/likeness/copyright stance.  Probably will never happen.

Therefore, FSW Falcon 50 with FMC it must be.

I think the issue is that in the real world, most current Falcon 50's have an FMC.  There were one or two airframes users found that had dual GTN's but seems that the vast majority had either a UNS-1 or something similar.  I too fly it with the GTN but...I think some of the time I'd rather use a UNS-1.

[richjb2 195]

Andre,

The two business jet sims for P3D that I recommend are Flysimware's Lear 35 and Xtreme Prototypes Lear 25.  I can say with some truth, having flown the Lear 35A, and worked as an instructor, check airman, and Training Center Evaluator (fancy word for a Designated Examiner for a FAA Part 142 approved training center) on the entire LR-JET series (20 series, 35/36, and 55) that, system-wise  both of the airplanes are close to the real airplanes. 

There are some things that are not simulated.  The wild dutch roll of the Lear 35A with full flaps and the yaw damper off is not simulated, nor is the very unforgiving stall characteristics of the 20 series simulated. Although, I believe the 25 is simulated with the later soft-flight wing modification.  I have not played with the fuel system of ver. 3.0 of the Lear 25, but the older version was not accurate and had acknowledged workarounds.  The autopilot in the sim version of the Lear 25 is not as sophisticated as the real world version, e.g. no vertical speed mode, go around auto thrust mode.  I wish they had made these "optional" instead of hard build in to their autopilot model.  They did it with the best of intentions to aid the simulator user, but it takes away from the experience of those who have flown the airplane. 

Rudder authority on the Xtreme Prototypes Lear 25 is lacking, and a V1 cut is not controllable. On the other hand, I can teach a real pilot...and any sim pilot...how to do a V1 cut using Flysimware's Lear 35.  The roll & yaw coupling is spot on.  if you have a good set of rudders, a V1 cut in Flysimware's Lear 35 is about as close as you can...or want to get...to the real thing.  Other neat tricks we used when teaching in the simulator also work in this model, for example after takeoff  with gear and flap up and still climbing, setting the fuel flow to 1000 lbs/hr will keep you less than 200 KIAS in Class D airspace during the climb. When leveling off at 1500 pattern altitude, bringing back the fuel flow to 500 lbs/hr will keep you right around 180K for the pattern work.  This works in the airplane, the Level D FFS, and in P3D with this model. 

Where Xtreme Prototypes Lear 25 shines is in the graphics and the cockpit. The modelling of the FD 108 attitude indicator is awesome. It's like you're sitting in the real airplane.  And the normal, everyday flight dynamics are not that bad.  Engines lag a little bit as they behave more like high-bypass turbofans rather than straight pipe turbojets. 

I enjoy flying both.  With both, get the Garmin GTN 750 from either Flight One or Reality XP.  Use the Garmin nav-data.  It may be a year old, but it's accurate for the release issue.  It's the closest you can get to flying a real airplane with a real FMS in the flight simulator world.  Holding patterns, procedure turns are all modeled accurately.  You can also fly a few honest to god RF legs with the Garmin. Can't do that in any other simulator regardless of what they "profess" to say in their literature.  

You can't go wrong with either the Xtreme Prototypes Lear 25 or Flysimware's Lear 35. Fly both and become a real charter pilot! 🙂

Happy Holidays!

Rich Boll

Wichita, KS 

 

 

[AndreNr22 7]

Thank you very much Rich!
that was a great explanation! 
I got the FSW Lear35A with the F1 GTN.

It’s great to hear that it is that accurate! 
So I will now definitely spend more time in it, until I can finally be back in the real airplane.

 

Cheers,

Andre 

 

 

[dbw1 444]

Thanks Rich for the pilot's evaluation. Retired pilot here but I never flew those two. Looking forward to the Eaglesoft aircraft when they show up. Dave

[windycloud 30]

Hi Rich, could you elaborate on the “roll & yaw coupling” you mentioned? The one issue I have with the FSW 35 is that it yaws very significantly when I bank. If that’s indeed accurate behavior I’ll reinstall it. Thanks in advance.

[AndreNr22 7]

Hi Rich,

you could some documents for the lear35? Performance tables etc. to calculate accurate V speeds e.g.

Cheers

Andre

[AndiKunzi 62]

The Flight1 Citation Mustang is a very well done aircraft with good simulation depth, realistic flight characteristics and accurate performance numbers (once you set the thrust in aircraft.cfg to 1,460 lbs, which was the thrust from serial number 0001, despite the first numbers from Cessna weere 1,390 lbs, which was basis for the F1 Mustang). 

[shivers9 1,174]

58 minutes ago, AndiKunzi said:

(once you set the thrust in aircraft.cfg to 1,460 lbs, which was the thrust from serial number 0001, despite the first numbers from Cessna weere 1,390 lbs, which was basis for the F1 Mustang). 

HI and thanks for posting about the Mod on the thrust. I have been spending a lot of time with the Mustang and following your post over at Flight1. Have you made any other Mods? Any idea on how to get a little bit more light on the cockpit panel?

[Bob Scott 7,715]

8 minutes ago, shivers9 said:

Any idea on how to get a little bit more light on the cockpit panel?

FSLabs' FS Spotlight (freeware).