Carenado Waco

[Pathfinder633 223]

Weird isn't it, a more forward CoG in relation to gear posotion should reduce the tendency to tail swap, yet with the Waco you get the worst of both world ....hard to get the nose up to flare yet massive torque swing, Carenado fecked up somewhere, but at least it keeps me on my toes😁

[cavaricooper 2,611]

I think Ron hit the nail on the head... the only thing I knew about @Carenado prior to MSFS was that they produced pretty but unfinished aircraft.  Thankfully a few of those were appreciated enough by the likes of Bernt Stolle and Bert Pieke, that THEIR modifications resulted in some finished aeroplanes.  Truly an enormous unrepaid debt for Carenado.

Then came MSFS, and @Carenado was somehow in a position to take advantage of the dearth of available aircraft, and release a steady succession of them in the new sim.  As is their M.O. they were released unfinished.  I will agree they have finally done a passable job on the Mooney (which also needs some more updating before it's truly finished- Engine Analyzer, handling after Asobo's FDE is improved, etc.).  The Seminole is also making slow progress, but the Waco, albeit the simplest from a system's viewpoint, still needs significant revisions. To release an aircraft with the instantly obvious CG issue (at first attempt to load fuel or persons/cargo) is inexcusable.

Thrice I have spent money with @Carenado in this new sim.... but now the ball is firmly in their court. I had hoped they would utilize their seeming advantage, and try and become a top-tier aircraft developer. Unfortunately, it would appear that I need to hope a little longer.  Surely their timing has put sufficient monetary resources in their company... hope springs eternal...

C

[The Third Guru 0]

I had two questions I was hoping someone here could help me find answers to:

What is the best rate of climb speed for the YMF-5? And what is the range of this aircraft?

(The Carenado information documents are woefully lacking in information.)

Sorry! I realized now that the range is 800 km. (As listed in game.) I'd still like to know the best climb speed, though.

Edited February 7, 2021 by The Third Guru

[bvdboomen 256]

HSI (heading bug) is ok on my side, take-off roll too. No extra luggage, no trim set to full nose-up
I have no problems with the aircraft, I just follow the tips real world tale dragger pilots have given (full stick back and gentle on the throttle).
So I really don't know why others have so much issues.
Yes, the plane fights you but by simply anticipating it, I can keep her straight. It's fun to take-off and land in this manner instead of "on rails". 🙂

 

[Chock 17,769]

Yup, I too was surprised to read that people were having difficulties getting it off the deck tracking straight down the runway, like you, I just did what you'd normally do with a taildragger, i.e. hold the stick back to jam some weight on the tailwheel as it started rolling and then be ready on the rudder once it was going fast enough for that to be effective at keeping it straight, then back off the rudder when it flies off the deck.

There clearly is an issue with the COG loading when you look in the sim, but you can fly the thing okay in spite of this, which to me tends to indicate that there's a sim issue in this regard too if you actually can fly the thing with the weight that far out of balance.

[lupedelupe 315]

32 minutes ago, Chock said:

Yup, I too was surprised to read that people were having difficulties getting it off the deck tracking straight down the runway, like you, I just did what you'd normally do with a taildragger, i.e. hold the stick back to jam some weight on the tailwheel as it started rolling and then be ready on the rudder once it was going fast enough for that to be effective at keeping it straight, then back off the rudder when it flies off the deck.

There clearly is an issue with the COG loading when you look in the sim, but you can fly the thing okay in spite of this, which to me tends to indicate that there's a sim issue in this regard too if you actually can fly the thing with the weight that far out of balance.

The correct way to get a Waco in the air is to lift the tail fairly early in your t/o run: forward visibility. 

A simulator (I'm using the term broadly, I know) should really be able to replicate that (what, with wind turbulence over church steeples and "perfectly replicated Cessnas" etc). 

[Chock 17,769]

47 minutes ago, lupedelupe said:

The correct way to get a Waco in the air is to lift the tail fairly early in your t/o run: forward visibility.

Oh I agree that's generally true - albeit the technique of either tail down or tail up with a taildragger does vary between take offs from either a hard or soft surface and is also somewhat dictated by how much room you've got as well, and how much the particular aeroplane is inclined to swing under acceleration - so that's got plenty of caveats as is the case with most things related to flying. Thus tail up isn't necessarily the correct way, it's the most common way, for most taildraggers.

On aeroplanes with a known tendency for a vicious swing because of a lot of power, i.e. this WACO, which is not the original WACO but a modern souped-up version of the original, still in production with a much more powerful engine - 300 hp - and a much more effective rudder to counter that bloody huge eight foot fixed pitch wooden prop, keeping the tail down for a while when you initially start rolling does two useful things which help prevent it from departing sideways.

First, and as noted, the weight on the tailwheel helps to prevent it swapping ends and this is indeed why many taildraggers also have a tail wheel lock since locking the tailwheel isn't much use if it isn't in contact with the ground lol, but the really important thing keeping the tail down can help with, is that with a high angle of attack on the wings in a tail-down orientation to the airflow, there is a ton of induced drag, and that means the thing accelerates a whole lot slower. That's a good thing if you're having difficulties keeping an aeroplane straight, because part of the problem with taildraggers is that when you're not used to them, everything seems to be happening at once to conspire to cause problems, so anything you can do to slow down the way it gathers speed, gives you more time to react and to spot trends such as a swing beginning to develop.

Now once it is under control and the rudder is effective, sure, get them tailfeathers up off the deck so the wing is free to generate more efficient lift, but keeping them down initially can certainly help to get the thing going straight in the first place.

Beyond this, since we are talking sim behaviour and not the real world, we'll probably see more realistic behaviour from this thing and other add-on aeroplanes when that aerodynamic update turns up, and then we'll be able to use more of the real techniques. But in the interim we often find ourselves departing from what sometimes gets done in reality just to get things to work.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Chock

[Tailwinds 52]

I love all these armchair pilots in comments who think they know best. The Carenado WACO is still bugged, even after the first update. No ifs, no buts, it's bugged and completely WACO! I don't hold much hope of Carenado ever fixing it. Carenado have always been third division when it comes to their products.

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,798]

14 minutes ago, Tailwinds said:

I love all these armchair pilots in comments who think they know best. The Carenado WACO is still bugged, even after the first update. No ifs, no buts, it's bugged and completely WACO! I don't hold much hope of Carenado ever fixing it. Carenado have always been third division when it comes to their products.

I do not think anyone is denying it is still bugged.  That is blatantly obvious.

As for Carenado they have shown themselves in the past to be totally immune to bad press and community displeasure.

I think the response you are getting is actually "this is old news, we know it is still bugged, we all can see that, move on nothing to see here" combined with a few misguided attempts to give you helpful work arounds thrown in,  as they do not realise you are  only posting to express displeasure rather than actually asking for help with the bugs..

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by Glenn Fitzpatrick

[ryanbatc 12,770]

I own both the Waco and Seminole.  After reading the main FS forums it appears there is an issue with the instrument xml file - overlapping between both these aircraft.  My HSI is frozen on both the Waco and Seminole after applying the latest updates (and a PC reboot).  The HDG bug moves, but the CDI is stuck on North and the OBS knob won't move the needle.

Does anyone else own both and is experiencing the same issue?

edit:  seems to be a fix here that I missed:

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/waco-ymf-is-causing-hsi-problems-in-pa44-seminole/358243?u=ryanbatc

Edited February 17, 2021 by ryanbatcund

[LouP 116]

Hey Ryan,  Yup, have the issue on mine also.  But lately  I can't even get the Waco off the ground.  She just veers off and crashes into whatever is in the way.  It wasn't like that when I first installed it.

LouP 

[stefaandk 84]

I can't get any of those XML fixes to work myself, definitely some load order issue of some sort coz if I delete the Seminole in game and redownload it works but only that one time, upon next start I'm back to a frozen HSI.

I ended up dragging the WACO in and out of the official folder as needed given I fly the PA44 more frequently but yes it's very annoying as it removes the ability to fly the Waco on impulse as I have to plan for it now. I don't understand that Carenado has not managed to resolve this as it's been an issue since the Waco's release and there have been no lack of reports about this.

[ryanbatc 12,770]

Hmmm

FWIW make sure you update both products and then I placed the xml in the Waco folder listed on that first post.

Worked for me.  I also have tons of community addons.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[stefaandk 84]

I could have another crack at it but I downloaded the xml from that link, no dice, edited it manually, no dice.  Lost my enthusiasm to keep trying tbh, then again it is Friday night here and the Waco is a lot more fun after a few beers 🤪

[Breeze 17]

Deleted

Edited February 19, 2021 by Breeze