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Will Fly For Cheese

SONY pull CyberPunk for not being ready. . .

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2 hours ago, W2DR said:

What the heck is a CyberPunk? And, do I really care?

Well, ironically, since a player's character adopts the role of a technology-based criminal in a futuristic world in the game Cyberpunk 2077, I kind of think it's the ultimate ironic joke that players should feel like they've been ripped off because it won't play on their hardware. After all, that's the persona they were hoping to adopt for themselves in the game. Talk about life imitating art. 🤣

But in case that was a serious question as to 'what a cyberpunk was', it refers to a sub-genre of science fiction, typically set in a lawless subculture or oppressive society where much is dominated by computer technology. If you think Bladerunner meets Mad Max, with a bit of the novels of William Gibson thrown in there for good measure, then you've pretty much nailed where it is coming from. I think the inclusion of Keanu Reeves in the game was probably also trying to channel a bit of that John Wick style as well, since Keanu is a very cool dude both on and off screen.

Back with the original topic and the suggestion that Sony pulling Cyberpunk 2077 from their stores is somehow pertinent to MSFS 2020, I think this is largely comparing apples to oranges. Cyberpunk 2077 was running poorly on older XBox One and PS4 consoles, and so that's a case of either not being ideally optimised, or too-ambitous content-wise for older machines in the first place, or perhaps both. Since Cyberpunk 2077 has been hugely anticipated by gamers everywhere, thanks to a big spend on marketing and the inclusion of Keanu Reeves in the thing, any bad press is best stomped on immediately, hence the offering of refunds should people want one.

This is in stark contrast to MSFS 2020, which by comparison had a pretty popular launch with everyone being pleasantly surprised at its frame rates; frankly, it runs like greased lightning even on very old and under-endowed PCs. To be fair, the situation was helped by the fact that most flight simmers have over the years scraped together enough cash to have a PC which most gamers would regard as 'a pretty good gaming rig', largely because you needed a sledgehammer to crack a walnut as far as getting satisfactory FPS in FSX and P3D was concerned, so even people with five-year old flight sim PCs have built something which is more like a typical high end two year old gaming PC rig in terms of processor, RAM and GPU.

MSFS has some issues with patches and various stuff ups, but in all honesty the only genuine usability showstopper out of that lot, was the patch which made the avionics conk out on the aeroplanes after about 20 minutes of flying, and even that was fixed after about a week or so, so it was hardly the end of the world.

Beyond that issue; yeah there's a laundry list of fixes tweaks and improvements to do, but let's face it, they are coming and we know this thing was made in one of the worst and most difficult years in most people's living memory, but still made it out of the door, so if not exactly getting a pass on forgiving all sins, Asobo at least deserve some credit for managing it at all. Some might say MSFS was released too soon, but we all had the option to try it for a quid, and turn it down if we wanted to, so nobody twisted our arms up our backs, forcing us to buy it. And even if they had done that, on the whole it's a pretty word not allowed good flight sim even at this point, so there's no way I want, nor expect a refund, in fact, the moment I can get my Carenado aeroplanes into Air Hauler 2, I will literally have no complaints whatsoever about MSFS 2020, I really like it and if they offered me a refund for MSFS 2020, I would not want it, even at this point in its development.

 

Edited by Chock
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Alan Bradbury

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Alan Bradbury

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Cyberpunk 2077 is one of those games that I always thought would be almost impossible to pull off successfully. The problem I see with games these days is that the core gameplay and mechanics cannot possibly compare to the massive improvement in visuals. How many games look fantastic in preview screenshots, only for expectations to come crashing back down to Earth when we actually see the thing moving? I have wondered for a long time whether my own waning interest in first person shooter type games (which I used to enjoy) is because game designers lack vision, or simply because vastly improved graphics and detail have made me expect significant improvements in all other aspects of a game (animation/depth/physics/AI/story/atmosphere etc). I can't help thinking that graphics have kept up with hardware progress over time, but that overall.....gameplay is still locked down in the early 1990s.

In addition, I think that some games can look rather too "busy" these days, simply because game developers have the processing power at their disposal to generate incredibly detailed locations. Deus Ex : Human Revolution always struck me as having rather too much detail in certain locations (and that game is a decade old) when compared to the original. More processing power allowed this of course, but when the player is not able to interact with 90% of the items/scenery in the game, the end result is a game that often feels "emptier" than its less fancy looking predecessor. I actually think that one of the reasons that the original Deus Ex is a much better game than any of its successors (this is a fact by the way, so no arguments please) is precisely because its graphics are much more basic. Less "useless eye candy" to be distracted by as the player explores the virtual world.

Of course, I am not saying that modern games can't be great. What I am suggesting is that game developers have to appreciate that there is far more to a great game than fancy graphics alone. Core gameplay and atmosphere are arguably even more important. With respect to my "too busy" comment above, I have always thought that Cyberpunk 2077 was in danger of falling into this trap. Some of the screenshots (and video clips) that I have seen are borderline insane as far as graphical real estate is concerned. There is only so much graphical extravagance that a games player can take in at any one time, and Cyberpunk 2077 seems to exhibit a level of detail that could easily overload the visual cortex. Too much detail is not always a good thing.


Christopher Low

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According to one of my friends who was really anticipating this game, when i spoke to him the other day he said it actually ran okay on his older system and the few glitches he experienced were livable and on occasion quite funny, for example, he saw some female A.I. character drop through a staircase as the collision detection glitched, and she let out a scream as she fell through the stairs.

He said his big problem with it was that it lacked the depth of a true RPG despite having been touted as including much of that, with the game actually being more of a nod to that kind of thing than the sort of full-on really in-depth crafting and such that you typically get in such RPGs. I think that's probably down to it being on consoles as well as PC, because that sort of thing tends to lend itself better to a mouse-driven GUI. But for all that he said it was an okay game, just not as in depth as he'd been hoping for.


Alan Bradbury

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OK is not really good enough for me. As an example of one of my disappointments in recent years, I decided to purchase Metro 2033 Redux over Christmas, as it was on sale for £2.99. I was expecting this game to start slowly, and be a really tense and atmospheric experience. Unfortunately, what I got (based on the hour that I spent on it) was a game driven by AI characters forcing me along at a pace that I did not want to play at, and waves of those same old brain dead AI enemies that I have seen far too many times in my FPS career. It was rather sad to see, and did nothing for my enthusiasm with respect to upcoming games. STALKER 2 is the big one on my radar, but I can't help worrying that this will also let me down.

I really hope that I am wrong :huh:

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Christopher Low

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1 hour ago, Christopher Low said:

Unfortunately, what I got (based on the hour that I spent on it) was a game driven by AI characters forcing me along at a pace that I did not want to play at, and waves of those same old brain dead AI enemies that I have seen far too many times in my FPS career.

 

You should have got Exodus instead, as I recommended some time ago. That is a tense and atmospheric game, where you can tackle each zone very much at your own pace and in your own way, as it works more like an open world structure and is more akin to STALKER. 2033 is an okay game, but very much old school by comparison. If you can grab it cheap, don't be put off by 2033. The AI are far more convincing even if it is smoke and mirrors.

AI is becoming the greatest immersion killer is we move forward. Graphics are becoming so very good, that the actions of NPC's is ever more jarring. I'm very glad I avoided Cyberpunk as the devs basically lied about the content and ability of their game systems. It's a great looking title on a high end PC, but it's a hollow experience in so many ways, especially as an open world environment.

 

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