A game or a simulation?

[Bosco19 198]

You illustrate perhaps the biggest hurdle in developing this kind of software. The vast scope of 2020, even in it’s imperfect form, invites a wide array of users, each with a different interest, and each with the expectation of a level of coverage and perfection that, it would seem, is an impossible task for the developers. That would seem to imply that some level of disappointment and imperfection will exist for all users. 

[neil0311 366]

1 hour ago, yurei said:

I think the original poster points were more about the developer's future investment in the software based on a more general target market. Still unknown is the state of Asobo's commitment to provide migration of C++ code for the larger commercial developers, as an example. Asobo/Microsoft, could at this very moment, decide no new features will be implemented, only bugfixes will be provided. 

 

Apologies if I misinterpreted the meaning, but this has been a topic of discussion for years.

It used to be “is Microsoft making it too much of a game” and similar questions every time a new version or some change happened. So I thought this was more of the same.

The reality is to be a commercial success, any version of Flight Sim has to be mass marketed, or at least attractive to people who don’t do this for a hobby. And many of those people are just casually interested in fooling around pretending to be flying a plane. They don’t care about procedures or accurate avionics or flight models.

My son is 24 years old and he is having a blast with MSFS2020. He loves being able to “fly” over places he knows and do tricks and even taking the lessons and practicing “real” flying, not just gaming.

It’s why I got my pilots certificate many years ago. I enjoyed “Chuck Yeager’s Air Combat”, Sublogic, and MSFS 3.0 on my 386 computer and wanted more realism. 

Edited December 21, 2020 by neil0311

[hs118 706]

3 minutes ago, Bosco19 said:

You illustrate perhaps the biggest hurdle in developing this kind of software. The vast scope of 2020, even in it’s imperfect form, invites a wide array of users, each with a different interest, and each with the expectation of a level of coverage and perfection that, it would seem, is an impossible task for the developers. That would seem to imply that some level of disappointment and imperfection will exist for all users. 

My history with Microsoft is "money talks and bull**** walks", if you will. I have seen them talk a good game in the early stages of platform, only to abandon it or just "pickle" it with no new development, several times.

 

[Ricardo41 5,935]

MSFS 2020 isn't any more realistic than Grand Theft Auto. It's a fun "let me pretend I'm a pilot flying those big jets" game and diversion. If it gets a kid to actually put the plastic yoke down and get into the real thing, all the better. 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Ricardo41

[hs118 706]

7 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

MSFS 2020 isn't any more realistic than Grand Theft Auto. It's a fun "let me pretend I'm a pilot flying those big jets" game and diversion. If it gets a kid to actually put the plastic yoke down and get into the real thing, all the better. 

Seems more folks read the title of a thread, then go straight to commenting what's pre-occupying their mind before they read the whole thread.

[cobalt 798]

  Short answer: MSFS is a simulator that some folks regard as a game.       Longer answer: It is possible to look at virtually any activity as a game -- I suppose even real flight, heaven help us! That MSFS Is a simulator (whatever else you want to call it), is very clear to anyone who has done some of the more challenging  bush flights. As a long-time FSX user, I have found our out how much more closely MSFS replicates real piloting than earlier sims.

Edited December 22, 2020 by cobalt

[OHN767 82]

Ofcourse its a game, the name XBOX when starting the game tells you that. You can buy a flightsimulator, as far as i know they cost millions of dollars.

Edited January 14, 2021 by OHN767

[Amon1973 1,421]

MSFS is a simulator that does have it's limitations, most of which will be resolved relatively soon, which in the longer term means it will be the best Pc based sim on the the market. We just have to be a bit patient.

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,798]

2 hours ago, OHN767 said:

Ofcourse its a game, the name XBOX when starting the game tells you that. You can buy a flightsimulator, as far as i know they cost millions of dollars.

10 to 20 million for a level D

[Ricardo41 5,935]

Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020
Euro Truck Simulator
OMSI

etc. etc.

Maybe Microsoft will bring back Train Simulator

[tweekz 2,165]

It's a home simulator and a game. You can play it just for fun but also experience realistic flight. You can turn on all helps, or you turn them off and crash when you deploy flaps at overspeed.

It's up to you.

As for the comparison to other sims - they are still ahead in the realism department, but that will change as soon as more complex addons come out. FBW is showing where we are heading and it's looking good.

Planes already feel like they are moving through air and in regards to authentic interaction with weather, it already exceeds the other sims. The rest - like fixing some physics issues and system depth - will come.

[MarcG 2,899]

Simcade

 

With the vast amount of Physics issues, inoperable and broken Systems and poor implementation of Features it is certainly anything but a fully blown Simulator.

Right now it's a crossover of a Sim & Arcade Game, potential there to improve to become a Sim in the future, but  at this moment in time it's not in that bracket for me, more an expansive Game with wannabe Simulator aspects.

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

But, really, who cares? 
Back to my man cave (office) to sit in front of a screen whilst I pretend to fly 🙂 

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,798]

On 12/23/2020 at 4:19 AM, cobalt said:

   Longer answer: It is possible to look at virtually any activity as a game -- I suppose even real flight, heaven help us! 

oh absolutely.

There are numerous local airports run by various local government councils in my country that are now closed to both GA traffic and training flights for exactly that reason, non-commercial aviation is regarded as a a "game" that interferes with "real" flying (by which they mean business charter and commercial airline operations).

Edited January 15, 2021 by Glenn Fitzpatrick

[Janov 2,383]

I guess the difficulty in answering this question is lack of definition of the terms - here is my attempt:

"Simulation" is a reproduction of a real process.

A "game" is trying to complete a task within a certain set of rules.

The difference is that a the simulation is bound to "real life" rules and effects (like gravity being of the correct value, for example), while a "game" can vary these rules.

Another possible distinction is the purpose (fun, entertainment, training).

In my opinion, there is no sharp distinction between a game and a simulator, it is fuzzy and no simulator has ever yet reached the full reallife fidelity of flying an airplane. I guess that would need a neural plug that injects the necessary sensations directly into the brain (visual, aural, sensory, emotional).